Christian herald., August 18, 1882, Page 2, Image 2

CHÍlISTlAN , IIKRAI/T).
2
and our prayers must, in that re­ The “Vicarious Atonement.” for satisfaction or reparation was
utterly impossible. And to have t
gal’d, be useless and vain.
Notwithstanding this is quite a
But 1 am very sure that these popular doctrine, I presume that punished an innocent and harmless
Is Prayer Natural ?
implied assumptions are entirely very few persons have ever stopped substitute, though he were from
NVMBEll III.
heaven, would have (been no better,
to -c nnsideg w ln tfe-it- r eall y- -mo a ns -
The wise man, the” philosopher,
forever bar the correct and Scrip­ Much less have they ever stopped foKHib’ sitiS^flTin^^—
the man of profound and wonder­
tural understanding of the power to reflect, to what extent there is But if our law’s and our civilization
ful knowledge, who often “ darken-'
could have permitted such a “ sub­
and philosophy of prayer. Neither any reason, justice or truth in it.
eth counsel by wordsS^vithout-
the promises of God, nor the logic •T1 le doctrine is based upon the stitution,^ it w’ould have been such
knowledge and who'fortifies him­
of real prayer, involves any change fact that men “ have sinned against a flagrant act of injustice, (with no
self behind the mysterious and im ­
whatever, either in the unchangrtble God, by transgressing his law, and benefit), as no court would ever
pregnablebulwarks,of. iLscience, ” -
God, or ill Tiis iiiiniutablehrwS.I~ are, therefore, in a state of* con­ sanction, andno officer eititeryiyil-.. .
falsely So called, but which he as­
ized or savage would ever know­
am well aware that there are very demnation and death.”
sumes and thinks, -put.} on his
many exhortations of Scripture that
To “atone" fffr sin, means to ingly execute. I can easily under­
spectacles, and seeming wise, silen­
seek to inspire our fullest confidence make satisfaction by rendering an stand the constent and unchang­
ces all argument by the following
and trust in’Gdd; and in the final equivalent, or to make full satisfac- able “ lore of God ” to all sinners,
proposition: “ If God .is an uii-
as well as the “ reconciliation ” and
.results of “ his ways/ which of ne: -tiouajid reparation.
changable being, u,nd the laws of
cessity must lie as “perfect” as
FVcwtous means, acting or suffer at ope-ment, of man with God,
nature are equally unchangable and
their author, ami which trust and ing for another, as a substitute. So" though Christ; but this is alto­
eternal/ how can God- answer
confidence will surely work in us, that “ the Vicarious Atonement ” of gether different from a “ blood
prayer ? and what is the use of
and for us our greatest good:
Christ, simply means, that Iadore atonement for sin ” and that" too by
praying ?” WeIrright fully answer
But the objection to prayer, in- God could become ,“ reconciled to a substitute,* instead of the. guilty
this inquiry by saying, that if God
solved "in the proposition of the man,” sin must be punished in person'.
answers the cry of the young "lion, j
If this doctrine is.true I can’t see
scientist, (as well as many of the some way. To punish the sinner
the lamb, the calf, and the infant
wliy
a n fthi couldn’t “ send a hand ”
so-called “ prayers ’ - that are man, would be to punish him with
child, by the natural resources and
prayed)’ exhibits a gross nriscon-, death ; (for “ the soul that sinpeth, to “join church ” in his room ami
,](|eans, at his command, that ate
ception of “ how we should pray,” it must die,” and “ the wages of sin stead, or even “ send in his photo­
adapter! to the very purpose ami by
and “ what we should pray' for.’ is death.”) So then, sin in the ab graph for Baptism,” if indeed either
which all results are produced, why
We. forget that we have no pro­ struct, must be punished. But it of them are necessary, since Chiist
should it be thought a thing in­
mise only as we “ ask according to would be very «lifHcult, if not quite fully atoned and made full satis­
credible that God should also an­
his will.” His physical and spiiitual impossible for even the omnipotent faction for the sins of men, and
swer the prayers of his children
laws are an expression of his will, God to punish sin in the abstract, « paid it all.”
when they cry unto 14m “according
- - S C. A dams .
and the results produced by them without having somebody to repre­
to his purpose ? ’
Salem, Or., Aug. H, 1882.
But I propose to treat (lie pro­ are, and must be also “ according to sent sin. Therefore, according to
position fairly and logically, and his will.” We have no natufai this doctrine, God selected one who
Ina company of ministers on a
will, therefore, first correct an im­ want, or need that can be supplied^ was harmless and innocent, and
railroad train the other Jay, a pre­
plied error in the foregoing ques­ but what the natural resources off by substituting him “ in man’s
siding elder said to the.editor of
tion. In the alove proposition of God in nature, ami God in nature’s^ room and stead” he “atoned" or
the Messenger! tempting him, “ Can
the pretended “ scientist,” it is as­ laws, can fully supply. Nwither . made full satisfaction and repara­
a surveyor run out a valid line
sumed that in order to answer any have we any spiritual need, that tion for “sin” in the abstract. If
when the line begins in the water?”
of our prayers, that God must that can be satisfied, but what God Christ made a full and complete
The editor modestly replied: “ I
change, or that there must be some in the natural- operations of his atonement, or “ full satisfaction ”
will answer your question by re­
change in his purposes or laws. It spiritual laws, can as fully and for 'mans sins, man must then have
also assumes- that in our prayers, certainly supply. If we have any gone “ scott freefor if my debts lating a circumstance : My religious /*
we may ask, or are authorized to want or desire, that *God cm mot are fully paid, 1 am liable to my career began when I was eight days
ask for something that is entirely satisfy in this way, we may know creditor no longer, ami his pretend­ old, in the sprinkling of a few drops
unnatural, or that God cannot give that our desire is capricious, and ed forgiveness of my debt, can only of water on my head by a Methodist
us without changing some of his our want fictitious, ami that our be a burlesque, and a sham. For preacher. I then had no faith, no
physical or ' spiritual laws !! As prayer is not “ according to the will if Christ “ atoned ” for one actual repentance, no knowledge, no will,
these laws are as eternal and un- of God.” It is according to the sin (of man) he atoned for all sins, no nothing—but a little water. My
changable as God himself, it is as- eternal ami unchangable pu rposc of and for the sins of all. And if lie Methodist line commenced in the
suined that God cannot answer God, that every real want of our atoned, or made full satisfaction for water, and 1 do not think it was a
prayer, and that any prayer is' physical and spiritual natures should all the sins of all men, then they valid line ! I have rubbed it out
so that there is no ne-
and commenced anew. Is’ your
therefore useless, and an idle form. lie satisfied,
are fully cancelled, for “he paid it
.
<
<• supposing
.
cessity
whatever
of
‘
or
question answered ?”— Messenger.
Now, no intelligent man will deny
all/”
that the physical and spiritual laws implying any “ change ” in the/iar- , 1 really wish that some one who
“Sunday,” slid Mr.Rdph Waldo
of God, are the methods by which poses of God, in order that any believes this strange sprt of doc­
prayer
in
this
behalf,
may
lie
an
­
“.his works ” are all accomplished
trine, would explain it, if they can ; Emerson, “ is the core of our Chris­
al
i <1
swered.
And
the
resources
and are as eternal and 'immutable
foy 1 confess that it seems to me tianity.” Well said—and the core
agencies
of
God
in
nature,
are
as himself. Neither can it l»e
not only clear outside of,all reason of our civilization as well. What, I
abundantly
ample
to
supply
every
denied that a change of purpose in
and common sense, but also of all therefore, should be done to those
natural
want,
so
that
no
additional
God, or the possibility of a change,
proper biblical interpretation, and who are working in every con­
nffiiiirces are.necessary.
or of a new purpose even, would
We are instructed to pray for is mpre monsppus tlian any pagan ceivable way 'to make Sunday a
secular day,, or a day of riotous
destroy God. So that if it is true “our.daily bread, but have we any doctrine or practice ever heard of.
suriemler
that the hiiswi ' to our prayers ini reason to erpect, or did any one . If a man commits murder, 1 can- pleasure-seeking,
plies, or necessitates ths least ever see any “ bread” that God had” 'HoVsce how blood can ever atone* Sunday to newspaper reading/ pf/
“ variableness or shadow of turning not produced by his natural laws for it. Although Guiteau suffered to the excursion by railway or
and methods ?
r>wa
afar from the house of
i the just reward of his deed, lie steamer,
in God,” his puqioscs or his laws,
ADA Ms, ‘
| made no atonement’for*liis'crime,q God I t—P resbyterian.
then the objection i»' well taken, Salem, Or., July 26, 1832. (i.-—:- J
'. ' • •
t - -
Origina! Contributions.
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