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About Oregon daily emerald. (Eugene, Or.) 1920-2012 | View Entire Issue (May 21, 1982)
Los Alamos built our ski slope The social life, by the way, was just fine for married couples There were a lot of young marrieds We saw each other all the time. And a lot of children were born out there Our first child was born there Emerald: What kind of work did each of you do? Olum: A lot of our work was devoted to taking a look at the materials and what could be used. I was really looking at the neutron production in the bomb and the neutron flux. Later on, our group had the job of calculating the predicted total energy release of the bomb. It involved producing an enormous wave type equation that would describe the explosion of the bomb as it moved out Novick: I was only involved in one part of it, the energy release experimentals. Under Fermi, we mea sured the amount of plutonium and the fision products left in the crater after the explosion. Two of us had the job of measuring the plutonium, but the other guy got scared out so I was left to do it myself Fermi had said the chances were 1 in 10 that we might ignite the atmosphere, and that frightened him, so he went back to Los Alamos Olum: Oh yeah? Really? Novick: Yeah, he went back and left me to do it myself Olum: What did he think was going to happen if the atmosphere was ignited; he’d be safe there? Olum mumbles something about "idiocy." Novick snickers. Emerald: Was there a rush to hurry up and get the research done, to build the bomb before anyone else did? Olum: Sure, before the _ \ A / s-v nil Nowick: The whole evening was kind of interesting because there were thunderstorms, and it was so goddamned dry. After it rained the frogs appeared, and I couldn’t believe there were frogs — zillions of them There was some question whether they could (drop the bomb) because the airplanes couldn’t fly You'd hear over the intercom somebody saying, "It's contrary to Air Force regulations for a B-29 to fly into a thunder head We will not go in ” And then some general on the ground is ordering the B-29 to go in Finally they said let’s go There was a countdown You could here 10-9-8 then there was an enormous blast of light, and that with the dramatic thunderheads and the dawn sky — it was sobering I was one of the first people in afterward to collect samples, we had a tank and Herbert Anderson was going in with that goddamn tank He would fire rockets in between samples but that didn't work at all, these guys were getting pretty heavy radium The next day I went into the center and collected samples While I was there I found a dead rabbit that was obviously killed in the blast The generals wanted to know what it looked like it didn’t look like much Olum is quiet, looking down at the table and playing with his pen Novick waits for the next question, sinking back into the leather chair. Emerald: What was it like when you went into the crater? Novick: It was a shallow crater, but it was all coated with green glass There wasn’t anything left of the tower or anything like that The glass came from the melted soil. Emerald: What was your reaction to the bombing at _ Hiroshima? German s did it We ail thought the Germans were two years ahead of us. Emerald: How much of a rush was there? Were you working 18-20 hours a day? Olum: I think for exper Olum: we knew we were going to buiid a bomb. Ulum: | think we al! — at least I believed — that since we were in the mid dle of a war and since hundreds of thousands of people might die in an at tempt to invade Japan, that it was probably an appropriate or believable tmentors at Los Alamos the pressure was enormous Eighteen hours a day7 The answer is yes, in the cyclotron unit The pressure on the people developing the experiment and the design was immense Emerald: What about the test explosion at Almogordo? Were both of you there? (Almagordo was the test site for the first atomic bomb.) Olum: I saw it. I wasn’t there at the site, I saw it at a considerable distance I saw it sitting on a mountain top near Albequrque Novick: I was there Olum: How far away were you? Ten, 20 miles? Novick: No, nine miles away Or maybe 9,000 feet. I don't remember which, but I was in the first group not in bunkers. Olum: Those really saw a fantastic explosion Novick: I was next to Groves, Oppenheimer and Fermi Fermi was throwing strips of paper into the air to calculate for the energy release (Groves is General Leslie Groves, the head of Los Alamos for the United States military. Oppenheimer is Robert Oppenheimer, the head scientist at the project.) Emerald: What was your reaction? Olum: Unbelievable We saw, from what was an enormous distance, this fantastic explosion with the entire sky lighting up I must admit that we were scared for the people there because it looked as though it consumed everything it was so huge Aaron Novick military posuiuii. Olum's answer is choppy as he picks his words carefully He shifts in his chair several times He aligns his pen to a perfect parallel with the horizontal lines on the legal pad as he speaks. A lot of us wondered why it wouldn’t work to let the Japanese scientists know that we were going to drop the bomb, as a test on Fujiama or something like that They ought to have had some equipment around to measure it and see what would happen But, I think that most people accepted it as inevitable, in the middle of the war with all the dangers that were coming Novick: People have to understand how you feel in the course of a war like that — it’s kind of a war physcosis Only much later did I really feel the consequences My stomach got upset and I got ill Emerald: From the scientific standpoint though. Paul Olum ble to stop and hope that it would never exist But the knowledge that such a bomb could be made would prevent that The Russians would have built it We would have built it Emerald: What about the arms race now’ How do you view that? Olum: It's a disaster Novick: It's my feeling that the weapons themselves have become the enemy When it's a hair trigger situation, it doesn't make sense Olum When you have an arsenal of weaponry that can destroy the whole world several times over, and therefore you are dependent every time on someone not doing it that's a terribly dangerous way to live Emerald: What about your views on nuclear energy? Olum: Despite, what everyone might think, we haven't learned to do it right I think most of us believe that if fusion energy could be developed there's a reasonably good chance that it could provide a rea sonable source of energy In order to make it so we've got to solve some problems Novick: I don't object in principle But, for example, the disposal of nuclear waste is not sound In so many ways we humans are reaching the phys ical limit of our planet and we're running out of primary materials If we were to suddenly have unlimited sup plies of energy, we'd quickly get ourselves into trouble Emerald: Do either of you regret having worked on the Manhattan Project or at Los Alamos? Olum and Novick grimace They both hesitate, waiting for the other to speak first Olum: That s a hard question because it cuts both ways I think the answer in part has to be yes Opf>enheimer said once, "Physicists know sin " It's true it probably would have existed without us Anybody who has worked on something that could end wasn t there elation that it actually had worked? Novick: We already knew it worked from Almogordo All of the big headlines and what else, there was some pleasure in seeing all that — The Surprise the World Felt Novick: The weapons themselves have become the enemy. up destroying an Human kind must have some feelings of remorse, re gret On the other hand, it would be dishonest not to say that they were very exciting times in the scientific community at Los Alamos uium: tou can x neip being involved in that, but I think most of us were upset at the attack on Nagasaki. They’d already made their point, they'd already shown what they could do To drop the bomb seemed irresponsible Novick: I had the experience of being in Japan in the ’60s A scientist I know, we were riding the same train, told me he was from Nagasaki or Hiroshima, I forget which, but his aunt had been killed there I told him how awful I felt Don't feel bad ' he said, ‘I would have done the same thing Novick sighs, looking down. Emerald: How do you view the bombings now9 Novick: It was a terrible mistake the fact that we used the bombs puts us morally in a very weak position I think it just made nuclear war all the more likely Olum: The big question is, if we hadn't dropped the bomb on Hiroshima — Nagasaki never should have been bombed, that is almost sickening that it happened — would the Japanese have sued for peace without it? Novick: Scientists in Chicago anticipated it they had petitions to stop it. We were so involved with the preparation of the bomb and its testing that we lost our good sense Olum: What we really should have done is stop when Germany surrendered Once the war was over and you knew that there was no longer the threat of a bomb from the other side, it would have been reasona nfur»ui. wiy regret for my participation is really trivial compared to my regret that there are bombs and they're used True, like Paul, I found those exciting times and enjoyed those people very much, but if my not having particiapted would have stopped them, then by all means But personal regret is small in comparison to the deeper regret Olum leans forward, using his pen to emphasize his answer Olum: Do you realize a very small change in nature could have prevented it? When an atom splits apart, neutrons come out instantaneously If they'd have waited 1/1000th of a second, it never could have happened If they'd have come out a little slower, the bomb would have blown itself up before it could gener ate much Olum sits back, his pen askew on the yellow legal pad There is some shame. Some regret But that's easy retroactively At the time, there was a war on against the greatest enemy we'd ever known If Hitler had the bomb and we didn't We had to do it We had no choice Story by Debbie Howlett Photos by Bob Baker
