SIX MEDrORD (OREGON) MAIL TRIBUNE
Monday. October 7, 1957
Irs. Roosevelt, Khrushchev Discuss Who First Sold Arms to Other Nations
By ELEANOR ROOSEVELT
Cincinnati, Ohio I question
ed Nikita S. Khrushchev, chief
of the Communist party in the
Soviet Union, in my interview
with him at Yalta on the Soviet
position in the Near East and he
accused the United States of
first selling arms to countries in
that area.
Here is a continuation of the
interview from my two previous
columns:
Roosevelt: Cannot we come to
a reconsideration of our whole
attitude in the Middle East? .
Khrushchev: Mrs. Roosevelt,
you don't know about the pro
posals that were made by the
Soviet Union, that no country
should sell arms to any country
in the Near East. The U. S. re
fused. (Dr. David Gurewitsch, break
ing in: We only refused after
arms 'had already been sent to
Egypt and Syria by the Soviet
Union, so the balance had al
ready been destroyed.)
Khrushchev: Are you the
head of military supply, Dr.
Gurewitsch? I don't think you
know the exact situation.
Roosevelt: I don't think any of
us knows the exact situation, but
it might, however, be brought up
in the disarmament conference
or in the United Nations.
Khrushchev: I ask you: Who
first started selling arms to the
countries we or you? How
about Pakistan?
Roosevelt: I think you did.
Pakistan is not the Near East.
It is further away.
(Dr. Gurewitsch, breaking in:
The question was: Who first sold
arms?).
Roosevelt: I would say that
we believed the Soviet Union
first began to send arms to oth
er countries. I think the only
thing to do about the situation
today is to bring it up in the U.N.
and try to come to some agree
ments. Khrushchev: You haven't ans
wered my question. You do not
like Communists, and I . have
nothing against this because I
may not love the people who
stand on other platforms. But
people might be honest. That is
why my question: Who were the
first to sell arms to other coun
tries and not only sell but sup
ply free of charge? Who was
the first?
I respect you greatly and I ap
preciate the activities of your
great husband, Franklin Roose
velt, but the "whole world knows
that the U.S.A. started first the
supply of arms, so I hoped to
have an honest talk, otherwise
we cannot be sure of the inter
pretation of this talk.
Roosevelt: Are we going back
to the Marshall Plan?
Khrushchev: It is no matter
whether it is the Marshall Plan
or any other plan. I know the
U.S.A. supplied all our enemies
with arms.
Roosevelt: The emphasis of
the Marshall Plan was on eco
nomic development within the
countries.
Khrushchev: Arms are also
economic aid?
Roosevelt: I agree that many
countries in the West received
arms, and I see how the Soviet
Union could feel that those were
provided against them, but we
in the U.S. would . say that we
had reached a point where we
had begun to feel that the So
viet Union had military inten
tions against the West.
Khrushchev: What were the
arms supplied for? We never had
them for tea parties.
Roosevelt: I think our first
suspicion rose at the time of the
Berlin airlift when the Soviets
seemed to be trying to push us
out. I will grant that we may
have made mistakes, but I also
think that you made mistakes.
Having been here, I realize that
your people do not want war.
Khrushchev: If you say the
people do not want war, who
wants war their representa
tives? Roosevelt: The government,
perhaps. For they do things on
both sides which they believe
are for the defense of the peo
ple. This happens in our coun
try and it probably happens in
yours.
Khrushchev: It takes place in
your country.
Roosevelt: If so, it also takes
place in yours.
Khrushchev: Definitely not in
my country.
Roosevelt: Oh, it does. Govern
ments are much the same.
.Khrushchev: There are signs.
There is logic; there is experi
ence, so we may check up. Whose
troops approach the borderline?
Do the Soviet troops approach
the U.S. border? It is the Amer
ican troops who approach the
border of the Soviet Union. Yes,
they are there.
Roosevelt: We are not trying
to enter-the Soviet Union.
Khrushchev: They do try.
Roosevelt: We are not trying.
But it' can be only a defensive
attitude if we are to have any
kind of amicable coexistence.
We cannot go on with arming
both sides. Could we work for
a greater interchange of people
on every level in order to get
greater understanding?
Khrushchev: I am surprised,
Mrs. Roosevelt. Maybe you are
not informed quite well what the
situation is. We never refuse.
We always allow people to come
Television Quiz
Influence Seen
New York (IP) At least one
important American educator is
skeptical about the influence for
good that the currently popular
quiz whizzes on television shows
are exercising.
"Perhaps we are laying too
much stress on the quizz show
mentality in selecting young peo
ple for scholarships," said Dr.
Carroll V. Newsom, president of
New York University and a di
rector of a scholarship fund
(Fruit of the Loom Foundation).
"I think it would be very in
teresting to award a group of
scholarships on the basis of ac
complishment other than the
standard competitive examina
tions. It would be rewarding, too,
to compare the winners of these
scholarships with those who have
won by competitive examination
to see which group fares better
in college and after."
Merwin J. Joseph, chairman
of the fund and a vice president
of the company . financing the
scholarships, said: '
"The fact is that many quiz
heroes are mental freaks, with
literally 'photographic minds.'
Capable of accumulating miscel
laneous facts the way an attic
collects junk, they are not capa
ble of making any original con
tribution to society.
"To a great extent, competi
tive scholarship examinations,
like the quiz shows, favor this
type of mentality. They put a
premium on memory, or compet
itiveness, and on sheer luck.
They undervalue ambition, per
sonality, drive and, above all,
creativeness. Yet these are the
qualities that build progress."
v, a jf- ie ' y x- j
EXPRESSING HATRED for Negroes, one of Little Rock's
Central High School students who walked out of classes in
protest against admittance of nine Negroes drives knife
into back of Negro effigy. Crudely made dummy was hung
in tree across street from school. (International Soundphoto)
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JIM'S MEATS
here, but you never give a visa
to our citizens.
Roosevelt: We don't always al
low Communists to come to the
U.S. Neither do you always al
low people to leave your coun
try, even if we manage to get
visas for them.
Khrushchev: Tell us anyone
we haven't allowed to come
here.
Roosevelt: I am not saying
you don't allow people to come
to the U.S.S.R., but you take a
very long time to grant their
visas.
On your side, you did not
want to accept our fingerprint
ing. Having been here, I under
stand your feeling and so I am
glad that provision can now be
waived. The thing that disturbs
us is the difficulty the people
have who want to leave the So
viet Union, even for visits.
Khrushchev: We allow every
body to come here, no matter
how he blames the Soviet Un
ion. Still, we allow him to come
here and see what is going on
here. We are not afraid.
Roosevelt: I would sum up the
feeling of the people in the
U.S. by saying that it was what
the Soviets did in Eerlin that
started our suspicions. North Ko
rea, North Viet Nam, Egypt, and
Syria added to them. Misunder
standings have grown and there
is fear on both sides. We will
have to do things to create con
fidence. One thing that can be
done is a broader exchange of
people.
Khrushchev: I fully- agree,
Mrs. Roosevelt.
Roosevelt: Have you any sug
gestions to make, or any ques
tions to ask me?
Khrushchev: We have stated
many times our purposes. But
the U.S.A. is used to speaking,
to dictating, so they only speak
about conditions which they will
accept. I want to explain what
are the words and what are the
deeds. Where are the troops and
whose troops are they?
Roosevelt: If we could stop
thinking for a moment about
atomic weapons, we would still
have in the U.S.S.R. a very great
standing army which could
quickly move across Europe, and
this makes Europeans fearful if
they have no defense.
Khrushchev: There was a time
when in Germany, England and
France there was no American
army and our army was much
bigger, but we did nothing. We
are not so stupid to make tricks.
We have never made any at
tempts against these countries.
Roosevelt: When you read a
paper in the Soviet Union, you
find very little news about the
outside world. Every mention of
the U.S. is about something bad
which has happened there. For
instance, the only news I have
seen is on what occurred in Lit
tle Rock, Ark., on integration of
schools, but this problem affects
about seven out of 48 states.
Khrushchev: But the seven
states are the U.S. of America.
Roosevelt: Only a small part.
Khrushchev: We also have
small republics. They make up
the whole state of the U.S.S.R
and they, are equal in rights.
Roosevelt: We do not have cen
tral control, so our states have
certain rights.
Khrushchev: In our country,
every republic has its own
rights. They are .independent.
But let us come back to the ques
tion of what you say about the
U.S.S.R. Do you say anything
good in your newspapers?
Roosevelt: I think there has
been improvement, and there is
not quite the villification that I
find in your newspapers here.
But I would like to add that I
don't find antagonism towards
us among the people. They have
been kind and welcoming.
Roosevelt: Are you anxious,
sir, for more mutual economic
interchange?
Khrushchev: Yes, we are. Not
because we need it but because
economic intercourse is the best
way to improve relations. You
don't want to have trade with
our country because you don't
want to give us military secrets.
But it doesn't matter, because
we have atomic weapons. We
are not going to buy arms from
you, but we shall be pleased to
trade with you.
(Here Dr. Gurewitsch broke in
and said: What else is there to do
to improve' our relations?)
Roosevelt: That is what I am
most anxious to find out.
Khrushchev: Tell the truth to
the people of the U.S.A. Tell the
truth about the Soviet govern
ment and about our country. You
hate Communists.
Roosevelt: I don't hate Com
munists as people. I happen to
believe that through a free de
mocracy you actually develop a
more independent and stronger
people and give them the op
portunity to achieve more. That
is a personal belief and I can
; quite understand the socialist
belief, but that does not mean
! I want to see their belief spread
by methods ( of propaganda that
are not always open and above
board by hidden methods.
I am quite willing that both of
us should do our best to prove
that our way is the best for the
future. But I feel we will .have
to find a method for going for
ward toward more amicable re
lations or we will end in a war
that none of us want.
(Dr. Gurewitsch, breaking in:
Sir, you .just said: "We love
peace but we are convinced that
Communism will spread over the
world.'" How is that to be done
peacefully? You either acknow
ledge that an opposite idea has
j a chance or you simply wipe
i out the opportunity for coexist
ence. You must accept that two
things ' can go on even though
they may not lead to a complete
meeting of minds at any point.)
Khrushchev: Many people be
lieve that Communism is better
than the system that exists at
present.
(Dr. Gurewitsch again: Isn't
there a contradiction in what
you are saying? We talked before
about . coexistence and in the
same breath you say that you
are convinced that Communism
will spread throughout the
world. Aren't you doing every
thing possible to speed up that
process?)
Khrushchev: Oh, no, there is
no contradiction. What I said
about the spread of Communism"
is like telling about the law of
nature. I am firmly convinced
this is the natural course of his
tory and has nothing to do with
our living peacefully together
and stopping the threat of des
troying each other.
Roosevelt: We both know then
that the bombs are dangerous
and can annihilate the world.
Khrushchev: We are in favor
of full disarmament. We don't
need any arms if you accept our
existence and stop interfering
wherever you can.
Roosevelt: But we, too, are for
disarmament, but there has to
be some international inspection.
Khrushchev: We are for in
ternational inspection, but first
there has to be confidence and
then inspection. Mr. Dulles
wants inspection without confi
dence. Roosevelt: I think the confi
dence and the inspection have to
come together. We have to start
and gradually increase our plans.
Khrushchev: Quite right. Only
gradually it can be done.
Roosevelt: Would you agree
to limited inspection if we
could make a beginning?
Khrushchev: But I quite agree.
That is what we proposed. We
propose inspection in ports, on
highways, on roads, at airports,
and it is to be an inter-nation in
spection. But in answer to our
proposal, Mr. Dulles makes a
statement which sounds as
though he was making propo
ganda for 'the atom bomb, try
ing to make it palatable. He talks
of a clean bomb as if there were
such a thing as a clean bomb.
War is a dirty thing.
But you refused our suggest
ion. You insist on this flying
business and looking at our fac
tories. You know those rockets
made the situation more fright
ful. Now we can destroy coun
tries in a few minutes. How
many does it take to destroy
West Germany? How many for
France? How many for England?
Just a few. We have now H
bombs and rockets. We do not
even have to send any bombers.
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Roosevelt: And soon small
countries will have the atomic
bombs.
Khrushchev: Why not? Re
search goes on. They learn about
it. Let's get together so there
shall be no war. We are ready
to sign such an agreement now.
Roosevelt: Your people cer
tainly want peace, and I can
assure you that our people want
peace, too.
Khrushchev: Do you think we,
the government, want war?
Roosevelt: Not the people, but
governments, make war. And
then they persuade the people
that it is in a good cause, the
cause of their own defense.
Those arguments can be made
by both your government and
by ours.
Khrushchev: That's right. Can
we say we had a friendly con
versation? Roosevelt: You can say , We had
a friendly conversation, but we
differ.
Khrushchev: Now, we didn't
shoot at each other.
what T can give you of actual
quotations.
There was, however, a very
interesting discussion on a sub
ject that is of great general in
terest because it touches on the
Near East situation. So I will de
vote my next column to this part
of our talk, though I will not be
quoting Mr. Khrushchev's exact
words.
(Copyright, 1957, by United Fea
tures Syndicate, Inc.
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