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About Medford mail tribune. (Medford, Or.) 1909-1989 | View Entire Issue (Jan. 22, 1957)
EIGHT MEDFORD (OREGON) Stanford Considered 'Spoiler' In PCC; Has Wins Over UW Beavers San Francisco U.R) Stan ford, which was given little chance in Pacific Coast Confer ence pre-season basketball rat inDB has rfpvplrinrr! Into the PCC's "spoiler" ana the spunky Indians are having their fun in upsetting the big ones. Starting almost from scratch. after graduation took the heart of his third place finishing issb miaH Howie Dallmar has turn ed out a team that so far has derailed, at least temporarily, the' title aspirations of two of the loop's favored clubs Wash ington and Oregon State. And this week they aim to do the same thing to the current PCC leader California. Defense Stressed T.iltP hi other San Francisco Bay Area collegiate coaching contemporaries. Dallmar is a disciple of defensive or ball con trol basketball. And he has tak en a club, with only one con listent starter from last year, and molded it into a spirited team which takes the boards away from teams which out tower them by three to four inches per man. Three men have keyed Stan ford to their upset wins over Oregon State and Washington, the only conference loss suffer ed by the Huskies to date and the first of two Oregon State defeats. They are senior Bill Bond and sophomore Paul Neumann, and to a lesser extent late-starting Carl Isaacs. Needle eyed Bond is the club's top scorer and one of the best jump shooters in the busi ness. Neumann, rated by many Pacific slope coaches as the best sophomore in the PCC and a "sure-fire" future Ail-American, is a tiger off the boards as he out-rebounds men inches taller than his 6-1. Isaacs, a notorious "late-starter", got off even later this sea son as he did not report until after the first year following play in the annual East-West Shrine game where he was the number one receiver for his former Stanford grid team mate, John Brodie. Lost Contact Lenses He finallv rounded into shape this past week and Dallmar had him in. the starting line Friday night against Washington. His Quintets Stay Unblemished in Men's Cage Loop MEN'S LEAGL'E STANDINGS Pet. 1.000 1 000 1 000 .000 .000 .000 Mr d ford Kazarene 2 0 First Baptist YMCA 2 0 S PUsr'n Lutheran 0 2 Phoenix Nazarene 0 3 First Methhodiit 0 2 Medford Church of the Naz arene, First Baptist and YMCA each posted its second victory Saturday in the YMCA men's church basketball league. The Nazarene team whipped First Methodist 39 to 20, YMCA bounced Phoenix Nazarene 47 to 22 and First Baptist rolled over St. Peter's Lutheran 61 to 32. Ted Landers with 20 points, and his brother, Ned, with 18, paced the Baptists, who led 19 to 8 at halftime over the Luth erans. Don Mintz had 14 for St. Peter's. Medford Nazarene had an 18 to 8 midway spread over the Methodists and Clarence John son was top scorer with 16. Stuart tallied 13 and Peterson 12 for YMCA and Jay Wood 12 for Phoenix Nazarene. Half time score was 22 to 11 for the Y. ! INR-l'PS: Med. Nazarene 3 Methodist Stone 5 f ?0n Gohle t W.heai,'! Johnson IB e Van Ausdall Yatej 8 ft 3 Moore Beattv 2 t Edwards Substitutions For Naarene. Bod enstab 2; for Methodist. Schlauchter. Raymond. Parker. Hale 4. Eicher. Wolcamott 1. TVCA 4T 22 Ph. Nazarene Stuart 13 f 12 Wood Griffith t 2 Witt Peterson 12 c 1 Polrnu Hammer 10 1 Wallace Cordon 51 Williams Substitutions For YMCA. Isaacs 3. Fnnis 4; for Nazarene, Yorton 2. Bales. Baptist 1 Gilmore 8 Clemens 8 T. Landers 20 N'ordquist 3 32 Lutheran 14 Mintz 2 Herrmann Danielson 2 Snook N. Landers 18 Hart Substitutions For Baptist. Olson. Gleason 4. Hunter; or Lutheran. Gemachlich 5. SEATTLE SETS RECORD Spokane U.R) Seattle Uni versity, held to a one point win by Gonzaga Sunday, rolled up a new scoing record in the Coliseum here last night by walloping the Bulldogs 106-75. Elgin Baylor scored 33 points for Seattle. GORDON STRATE CALLED Detroit (U.R) The Detroit Red Wings have called up Gor don Strate from Edmonton in the Western Hockey League to replace injured defenseman At Arbour, who has been sidelined "indefinitely" with a kidney in jury. HAVENS QUITS Westminster. Md. (U.R) Charley Havens has resigned as head football coach and athletic director at Western Maryland College. He had been associated with the school since 1935. Dead line Sunday Classified is at noon Saturday: 10 a m. Monday for Monday: other days 5 JO previous day. MAIL TRIBUNE aggressive play aided in keep ing the Huskies off balance, and he proved an unexpected needle as the game was halted no less than six times to search for his popping contact lenses They were lost every time there was contact with his face. Stanford handily whipped Washington Friday night 70-63 and appeared to be on the way Vandals, Cougars Set Battle For 6th Place By NEAL CORBETT United Press Sports Writer If it wasn't for the losers there'd be no winners to step forward and take the bows but tonight a pair of losers will have the whole Pacific Coast Confer ence basketball stage to them selves. The Washington State Cou gars and the Idaho Vandals, pres ently battling in the depths of the conference standings, meet in the only game scheduled. The "Cougars have a 1-4 record, while the Vandals stand at 1-6. A victory for either team would throw it into a percentage tie with Southern California and Oregon for sixth place but Tarheels Named First; UCLA 7th New York (U.R) The United Press college basketball ratings with first-place votes and won- lost records through Jan. 19 in parentheses: Team Points 1. North Carolina (24 15-0) 333 2. Kansas (8 12-1) 294 3. Kentucky (1 12-3) 200 4. Iowa State (11-2) 198 5. Southern Methodist (14-2) 164 6. Louisville (2 11-2) 161 7. UCLA (13-1) 151 8. Illinois (9-2) 98 9. Seattle (16-2) 68 10. Ohio State (9-3) . 64 Second 10 11, .Bradley, 38; 12, California, 33; 13, Canisius, 30; 14, Wake Forest, 29; 15. Van- derbilt, 14; 16, Brigham Young, 11; 17, Duke, 8; 18, tie, Tulane, Oklahoma A&M and St. Louis, 5 each. Others Utah, Washington, Syracuse and Oklahoma City U., 3 each; West Virginia, 2; Du quesne and Pinceton, 1 each. Hawkinson's Takes Upset Hawkinsons knocked Com pany A out of a first place tie last night defeating them 64-46 in Medford Independent Basket ball league action. After trailing 17-16 at one point in the first half Hawkin son's then moved out into 39-29 lead at half time. In the second half the winners widened the margin due chiefly to the back board efforts of Max Hite and Dick Wooten. Darrell Wooten Viit eight out of nine field goals in the first half to spark several Hawkin son's rallies. He finished the game with 22 counters. Hite had 11 points and Wooten 10. Grebb was top scorer for the guardsmen totaling 14 points. Hawkinsons now has a 6-3 win loss record. Hawkinson's 64 Bob Seratc 4 LaRue Smith 4 D. Wooten 10 Hax Hite 11 Company A 46 7 T. Uarnell 4 V. Parent 8 J. Nolan 6 Higginbotham D. Wooten 22 14 Grebb Substitutes For Hawkinson's: F. Johnson 7. Dale McCoy 2, J. Johnson 1. D. Johnson 3. For Co. "A": B. Clark 2, J. Ayres 8. Weddte. Black 2. Heffernan Will Wrestle Lenz Grants Pass Roy Heffernan, the Australian champion who made such a hit here last fall, will meet Henry (The Great) Lenz in the main wrestling event this Friday night at the Jose phine Fairgrounds arena. Heffernan will meet a man who is his equal in strength but he will have quite an edge in experience. Henry Lenz has been improving with every match during the past year and he just recently wrestled sev eral main events around Ari zona. Alex Perez, who has turned plenty mean since appearing hear last spring, will return to meet handsome Reg Parks in the one hour prelim on this card. Perez defeated Pierre DeGlane last week but will probably have rougher going against the 215 pound Parks. Perez was quite a boxer in Texas amateur circles before turning to wrestling. Basketball Scores By UNITED PRESS East Mt. St. Mary's 89, American U. 85 Rochester Tech 82. Mansfield 67 South Middle Term. St., SI, E. Tenn St. 35 Midwest Minnesota 99. Marquette 78 Northwestern 70. Iowa 63 Ohio State 67. Wisconsin 64 Bradley 72, Tulsa 36 Southwest ST. Austin "7, Midwestern 43 West Seattlt 106, Gonial 7! Tuetday, January 22, 1937 to doing so again Saturday night when they tired and folded in the stretch to lose 68-64. The Indians, with a full week's rest and the presence of Isaacs, who was not around when California took Stanford 59-45 two weeks ago, could turn "spoilers" again this week end knocking Cal from the PCC unscarred ranks. each would still be at a disad vantage in the loss column. The present PCC standings: California 5-0. UCLA 4-0, Wash ington 5-1, Oregon State 2-2, Stanford 2-3, USC 1-3, Oregon 1-3, WSC 1-4, Idaho 1-6. Dallmar Favors Huskies Coach Howie Dallmar of Stan ford had a few words to say about which team he thinks will win the PCC title, and Coach Phil Woolpert of the University of San Francisco did a little orat- ing about the growing breach between the CBA and the PCC. Dallmar said the University of Washington stands the best chance of winning the PCC title but California has the beer learn, "at least oil their 59-45 win over us two weeks ago." Stanford, which split a pair with Washington over the week end, will get another chance to test California Friday night wnen the Indians play the Bears at Palo Alto. However, Dallmar's nod still goes to the Huskies. "Washington plays its three tough series including a two game series with Cal at home, and the home court is a big ad vantage," he explained. But he added that Cal has a top defen sive club which could throttle the Huskies' giant pair of Bruno Boin and Doug Smart. Dallmar said that in Boin and Smart, Washington "has the two best big men I've ever seen on the same team." Smart, only a sophomore, is the hardest big man to contain his team' has faced this year, Dallmar added. "And he's going to get better." Joe Maxim, Ed Machen Meet Friday New York (U.R) Joey Maxim, former world light heavyweight champion who figures he may as well get into boxing's "old-age derby," meets young Eddie Machen of Redding, Calif., in a 10-rounder at Miami Beach Auditorium Friday night. The undefeated Californian is a 3-1 favorite. The fight will be carried by NBC radio-TV at 10 p.m., EST. Maxim is the only man who boasts a victory over Floyd Pat terson, the new heavyweight champion, but that bout was fought in 1954. Maxim, who will be 35 on March 28, has cam paigned lightly since 1952. 82 Victories Maxim has scored 82 victories, fought four draws and lost 23 times in 109 fights. Carlos Ortiz of New York is favored at 12-5 over Chicago's Bobby Rodgers for their 10 rounder Wednesday night at Chicago stadium. This bout will be broadcast and televised by ABC. Ortiz has won 19 straight fights, eight by knockouts. Rod gers has won 10 and fought two draws in 14 appearances. He has knocked out six opponents. Boxer Said Developing New York (U.R) Angelo Defendis, who works in a Brooklyn fruit store between ring appearances, is fast devel oping into a "top banana" in the light heavyweight division. The hard-punching, former Golden Gloves champion regis tered his sixth straight victory and his 18th triumph in 20 pro bouts Monday night by breez ing to a unanimous 10-round decision over rugged Jerry Luedee of New Haven, Conn., in their widely-televised fight at St. Nicholas arena. Luedee weighed 17134 rjounds to Defendis' 169, but that was the only advantage he enjoyed. The Canadian-born battler put up a game fight and gained a moral victory in remaining on his feet through the entire 10 rounds. However, he was simply outgunned by the head-hunting Defendis., Referee Petey Scalzo award ed Defendis eight rounds and gave Luedee two rounds, while Judge Joe Agnello favored the Brooklyn battler, 7-3. The other judge, Joe Eppy, had it much closer but still favored Defendis 5-4-1. KLAPSTEIN RESIGNS Green Bay, Wis. U.R) Earl Klapstein has resigned as as sistant coach of the Green Bay Packers to become director of Athletics and head football coach at the new Cerritos Junior Col lege at Artesia, Calif, Fanfare The new stadium at the Vet erans Administration domicili ary. Camp White, is beginning to "shape up, H. Jaffrey, assist ant manager of the domiciliary, reported recently. At the time of his report, structural steel was up for the S117.500 ball park and show ground facility Jaffrey said that 21 feet has been added to each end in the grandstand plans. The added portions will boost seating of the structure to about 700 per sons. Materials for the structure were bargained under a bid sys tem which obtained lower prices than anticipated. Bid results permitted enlargement of the grandstand at no additional cost. The domiciliary is building the stadium itself with workmen hired locally. B. R. Sims, post chief engineer is supervisor. Spring use of the stadium is eyed by the VA. It is being erected primarily for the veter an members at the station but can be used by valley organiza tions through arrangement with the VA. No tax money is 'being used for the project. JERRY KALAPUS STARS Jerry Kalapus, one of two members of Medford high's 1955 state runner-up basket ball crew now playing for a college t a r s i t y, certainly showed his value to the Pa cific university Badgers last Saturday nighl. The 6-5 sopho more center piled up 31 points and gathered 17 rebounds to lead Pacific in its 84 to 68 tri umph over Willamette. Said Bob Hulen in a Port land Oregonian story: "Kala pus gave a fine performance. Not only did he score the im portant baskets which got Pa cific rolling early in the sec ond half, but his over-all play acted as a spark and it ignited Pacific to its best game of the season." Kalapus hit a variety of shots, sinking 13 of 20 tries for a .650 firing average. Other member of the 1955 Tornado club on a college var sity is Frank Rector, a regular although not always a starter at University of Portland. Bill Caldwell. ex-Eagle Point, is a squadmate of Kala pus at Pacific. FOLLOWS PREDICTIONS Neither Grants Pass nor Ashland can be counted out of the race, nor can Crater be discounted as a possible spoil er. But the first three week ends of play certainly point up the preseason predictions of Medford and Klamath Falls as favorites in Southern Ore gon conference basketball. This writer hasn't seen Ash land on the maplecourt this season but the impression gained from one view of Grants Pass is that the Cave men will have to play better ball than they showed on that occasion to beat Medford. Grants Pass is kown. however, for its numerous fired up per formances against the Black Tornado. ASHLAND HERE FRIDAY The new Ashland look will be displayed on the Hedrick court here this Friday when the Griz zlies meet Medford. A deliberate style of offense in which players work for a sure or easy shot is the Ashland forte this season un der the helm of Earl Iba. The deliberate play is similar to that which has carried Oklahoma A and M to national honors under the coaching of Hank Iba. Earl is a brother of Hank. TORNADO POLISHES Medford high's Tornado hoopmen look it easy last week when it had no games on slate. Coach Frank Roelandt said his squad spent its time reviewing and polishing up the various phases of its game After the tough Klamath se ries the bye was a welcome break. KF COSMOPOLITAN The cosmopolitan quality of top line high school basketball material at Klamath Union high has been pointed out to this de partment. Four of the eight Peli cans who saw duty against the Medford Black Tornado last week end are transfers although three of them have been at Klamath a year or nore. Glenn Moore came from Bly, Cliff Sutherland from Malin, Bob Niles from Medford and Mike Albo from Colorado. EQUALS 1956 TOTAL Ashland high in winning When You See GEORGE LEWIS ROGUE TRAVEL SERVICE A FREE SERVICE We Reserve and Sell Airline and Steamship Tickets PHONE 2-6779 LOBBY HOTEL JACKSON By DICK JEWETT Mail Tribune; Sports Editor three of its four basketball games in 1957 Southern Ore gon conference play has equalled its victory total for the entire league campaign of 1956. OLDFIELD GETS $875 Eddie Oldfield, ex -Medford high all-state golfer and now professional Roseburg Country club, was the youngest partici pant in the Bing Crosby pro- amateur golf tourney early this month, according to Brownie Valdez in his Roseburg News Review Sideliner column. Old field is 23. Ernie Nevers, ex Stanford university gridiron great was Oldfield's best ball partner. They tied for second and Eddie thereby earned $875 DIAMOND LAKE STORY Before the month of Janu ary is past . . . This month's issue of The Fisherman con tains a story, "Death and Birth of a West Coast Lake," which tells of the trash fish eradication in September, 1954, at Diamond lake in the southern Oregon Cascades and of the restocking with trout. The Fisherman magazine cov ers the year-around world of sport fishing. With the Janu ary issue the magazine comes out with new size, new color and new breadth and depth of coverage. It has a wide varie ty of articles and information. TO ENTER MITT MEET Medford Police Athletic league is to be represented by a team when a Southern Oregon Golden Gloves tourney is held at Rose burg on Feb. 22 and 23 under AAU auspices. We're told that the tourney could have been in Medford if scheduled later and the event may be staged here in the future on an annual basis. ASPHALT RUNWAYS A note from Bill Bower man, University of Oregon track coach and ex-Medford high mentor and athlete, men tions his experiments with as phalt pole vault and broad jump runways. Bill says the experiment has proved expen sive to him but he feels it should be valuable to track and field. Dickens Has Indiana Post Bloomington, Ind.-(U.R Phil Dickens, new Indiana football coach, became acquainted today with a gridiron headache which could haunt him. Dickens, who signed a four year pact with Hoosier officials Monday, arrived on the Indiana campus here to inspect gridiron facilities and possibly meet a few of his hopefuls for 1957. The balding gridiron mentor got wind of the head-swirling task facing him when he visited the university last month to be interviewed about the coaching job vacated by Bernie Crim mins, former Notre Dame star. Some handed Dickens a sched ule of Indiana games for 1957, and then in jest, placed a box of aspirin beside it. Indiana, last place finisher in the Big Ten conference last sea son, faces Michigan State, Notre Dame, Iowa and Ohio State in its first four games, none of them a pushover. But Dickens, who will receive a $15,000 salary annually, felt up to the gigantic task and said it was a "fine opportunity" to move into the Big Ten, which he figured was "the top" in coaching jobs. "The Big Ten has proven it self as the best league," he said. OSC Line Coach Has Grid Offer Corvallis U.R Clay "Stud" Stapleton, Oregon State line coach, said today he was defi nitely interested" in the vacant head football coaching job at Wyoming. Stapleton said he hadn't "real ly applied" for the position but that several friends of his at Wyoming had called him. Stapleton is the second assist ant coach in the state to be inter ested in a head coaching job. Jack Roche, end coach at Ore gon, said he had inquired about the vacancy at Arizona. MILER HAS TOUR Los Angeles (U.R) Bobby Seaman, star UCLA miler, plans to leave today on his first eastern tour. He will appear in indoor track meets at Boston, Philadel phia and Washington. Tornado 4th In Journal Cage Ranking Portland (U.R) Eugene ranked first in this week's A-l high school basketball ratings, according to the Jour nal coaches' poll, with Cen tral Catholic second and Klamath Falls third. The poll also included rank ings in the 'class A-2 and B divisions with Madras first in the former and Elkton top ping the latter. Others in the class A-2 were, in this order: Reedsport, Drain, Scappoose, Eagle Point. Cascade, Dallas, Willamette, St. Francis, and Myrtle Creek. The others in the top 10 of class B included Knappa, Sisters, Jefferson. Wallowa, Harrisburg, Echo, Helix, Brownsville and Malin. THE A-l RANKINGS: Team Points 1. Eugene 79 2. Central Catholic 68 3. Klamath Falls 66 4. Medford 49 5. Benson 48 6. Lincoln 37 7. Jefferson of Portland .. 34 8. Pendleton 22 9. Hermiston 14 10. Astoria 5 Others: Roseburg 4, Albany 3. South Salem 2, Milwaukie and Corvallis 1 each. Saddler To Quit Boxing New' York (U.R) Charley Johnston, manager of Sandy Saddler, announced today that Saddler is retiring from boxing because of an automobile acci dent which has impaired his sight. Saddler has not fought since he suffered the accident last July and last week the National Boxing Association stripped him of the world featherweight title for failing to defend the crown. "I am retiring Sandy on the advice of his physician because he gradually is going blind," Johnston said. The physician, Dr. Thomas W. Matthew, said there was some hope Saddler might retain partial vision if he did not box again. Saddler is a lanky 30-year-old who began boxing professionally in 1944. He first won the feather title by knocking out Willie Pep in the fourth round Oct. 29, 1948. He lost the title to Pep in a return bout Feb. 11, 1949 and won it back Sept. 8, 1950. INVITATION ACCEPTED New York (U.R) The Rev. Bob Richards has accepted an invitation to compete in the Millrose Track and Field Meet at Madison Square Garden, Feb. 9. He has won the pole vault event in the Millrose Games 10 consecutive years. MAKE THAT PERFECT FIGURE SI ...then make yourself a mellow highball... . .'JLiS5!S!i4 BRAND '(abedBveahs) OLD HERMITAGE BRAND KENTUCKY STRAIGHT BOURBON WHISKEY sorriEl IT Tie Oh Heimiugi Commut OLD HERMITAGECOMPANY, PRODUCTS CORPORATION Club Throwing by Tom Bolt Considered Publicity Gag By HAL WOOD United Press Sports Writer San Diego. Calif. (U.R! Terrible-tempered Tommy Bolt has many titles in golf but did you Jim Owens New Huskie Grid Coach Seattle (U.R) The Uni versity of Washington has its new football coach today, but actually the school didn't change much more than the boss-man's name. Jim Owens, former Texas A&M aide, was named to the position Monday suceeding Dar rell Royal who left Huskyville just before Christmas for a similar post at the University of Texas. Both Owens and Royal are split-T teachers. They played their college football as four year teammates at Oklahoma Universty under Bud Wilkin son and both were named Ail Americans in 1949. Royal introduced the Split-T to the Pacific Coast conference last season and came up with a 5-5 record, finishing the sea son with lopsided wins over Stanford and Washington State. Owens, who inherits a good many of Royal's starters, said at College Station, Tex., Mon day night that he hoped to im prove on the record but "would be teaching the same type of football as Royal with only a few elaborations." George Briggs, Washington athletic director, announced Owens' selection at a press con ference on the university cam pus Monday night. Terms of the contract were not discussed. Roche Wants Grid Post Eugene (U.R) Jack Roche, end coach at the University of Oregon, said Monday he has ap plied for the head football coach ing job at the University of Ari zona. Roche came here in 1951 when Len Casanova took over the head coaching job at Oregon. The Arizona job has been vacant since Abe Woodson was released at the end of last season. Roche said he had talked with Arizona officials at the NCAA coaches' meeting earlier this month. "I'm particularly inter ested in this job because I lived there for quite some time during the war," he said. Roche said he was "perfectly happy" at Oregon "but naturally any coach desires to head up his own program at some time dur ing his career. Roche played football at Santa ; Clara, under Casanova. J for and tell the yon know great straight 6 years JSeSM $280 $4 "ft. LOUISVILLE. KENTUCKY DISTRIBUTED BY NATIONAL DISTILLERS KENTUCKY STRAIGHT BOURBON WHISKEY 86 PROOF know that the other profession als consider him the most hon est man in the game? And most of them also believe that his club-throwing tantrums are just publicity gags to help the gate, or possibly to publi cize one Tommy Bolt. Bolt penalized himself a stroke in the final round of the $15,000 Caliente Open on Sun day a penalty that cost him about $125. And it was a penalty that many of his brethern would have overlooked completely. "I called'a penalty on myself on the 15th green," said Tommy. "I laid my putter down beside my ball and it accidentally mov ed the ball part of a turn. That is counted as a stroke in my book." Returned Check It was typical of Bolt to call the penalty, says Harvey Ray nor, PGA tournament super visor. "Not so long ago," Raynor re calls, "Tommy returned a check for $280 that we thought he had won in one of the Texas tournaments. - "But Tommy wouldn't take the money. He said that some one must have added the scores incorrectly, because the score he turned in would not possibly have paid that much." In Jackie Burke's opinion, a lot of Bolt's club-throwing is to amuse the public. "Shucks," says Jackie, "the headlines Tommy got in the San Diego newspapers, and the resultant publicity for the tour nament, couldn't have been pur chased for $5,000." Attracts Fans Bolt, of course, is the big gallery-getter on the tour now. Only Dr. Cary Middlecoff, Sam Snead, Byron Nelson and Ben Hogan and possibly Jimmy De maret have outdrawn him in the last 15 years. But with all the attention the galleries pay to him and the publicity he gets- in the press, "Temperamental Tommy" isn't happy. "Why doesn't the press tell some of the good things about me?" he asks. "Why do they always have to put it in big headlines when I throw a club?" The press figures just like the public: They would much rather see Tommy throw a club than penalize himself a stroke. Buy At Builders Supply Bricks. Floes. Drain Tile 727 W. McAndrews Phone 2 4107 fefltflj&jN QUALITY Wmt. BLOCKS world ? old
