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About Medford mail tribune. (Medford, Or.) 1909-1989 | View Entire Issue (Oct. 21, 1932)
ft The Weather Forecast: Tonight and Saturday oo caslonal raliu; moderate temperature. Temperature Highest yesterday - 1 Lowest this morning Proved Facts Count Proved circulation la A. B. C Audited circulation no guess-work about It. That la why the Mall Trl buna la an A. B. C, member. Proved facta count. EDFORD Twenty-Seventh Year MEDFOHD, OREGON, FlilDAY, OCTOJJKli 2J, 1932 No. 181. an Ml Li ROLF RE-ENACTS Miner Perishes in Forest Creek Cave-in M Mail Tribune nraiTN nnnnn n PIC U UJ WW Today Comment on the Da fs News By FRANK JENKINS TIB old town of Bhaata, located about eight mllea out from Red ding, got Ita atart In 1849, when gold was found In the gulcftea near there, not long alter the original discovery o California gold at Sutter'a mill. By 1853. it waa a 'roaring camp of some 10.000 people, about half of them Chinamen. t. now nearly aesenea "imu" VYt not quite ready to Join the ranka 'Si. the "ghost" towna. HOST" town once throbbing with the hot. hectic life, of the gold campa; then, aa the gold In the atream beda waa exhausted, cooling off and calming down: then dying. Memorleal t,hat la all that la left to them. But what memorleal If you want to feel the thrill of ro mance atand In the deserted Main atreet of one of these old towna and let your Imagination run free. OLD Shasta. atVe peak half white and half Chinese. The whltea wouldn't permit the Chinese to possess guns, but the In herited hatreds that burned In Wit ness bosoms couldn't be throttled. On day the Hong Kongs and the Cantonese fell upon ecah, other, armed only with butcher knives, pick handles and a peculiarly vicious breed of three-pronged fish spear, and when the dust of battle cleared away a dozen were dead and aome 80 badly wounded. A apeclmen of those old fish speara, w.hlch appear to have been locally manufactured, la still preserved In the museum that Is maintained In one of the old buildings. TIMBER waa scarce in the hills around Bedding. . So when old Shasta waa founded they looked around until they found a bed of clay, and from thia clay they mould ed and burned bricks and with the bricks they erected substantial bulld- lnga. These buildings were Jolsted with whlpsawed timbers and on these timbers were laid tin roofs. The roofs Save rotted away, but tha stout old brick walla remain. Inside these walls, trees have sprout ed and grown to good size. Up ON the hil'l,' back of the eld town, atands a dwelling house. It waa erected away back In 1851, by Dr. Shurtllffe, who wanted a com fortable house, a pleasant home, a "homey" house." So he scorned the bricks of which the Main atreet buildings were constructed and built Jala house of wood regardless of ex- pense. ' Do you lift your eyebrows when the word "expense" Is used in connection with a pioneer wooden house? Well, the rough timbers and boards of which the house was built were whlp sawed from trees brought back from tha hills, and the cost was A DOL LAR A BOARD FOOT. The finishing lumber waa brought from Maine, around the Horn, in sailing vessels. What It coat Is not recorded, but It must have been plenty. "po OLD SHASTA? back In the early fifties, came George Washington Ball, a direct descendant of the fam ily of Mary Ball Washington, mother of George Washington. He built the Charter Oak hotel, and when it waa finished they held , a grand opening ball. Tickets to the ball cost (30 each, and sold like hot cakes. The ball gave to the women of the camp a golden opportunity to display their finery, and they took full advantage of It. They came early, attired In a part of their best, and at 10 o'clock they rent home and changed and came back in new outftta. ( THINK of Ji e candidates' balla " that are being held around over Oregon thia fall at something rather new. They were holding candldats' balls away bak in the days cf old Shasta. At one cf them, of -inch a record retrains, they rharad the candidates 1 50 for admission end thetr dinner. Not so bad for mining camp days, waa it? They evidently floured that . candidates for public office needed to N let off easy. 0N kN one side ot ihe old Ma i n street lies up against the hill, and the buildings wens burrowed partly Into this hill. Bark of some of them. ..Continued on Page Ten) OF ST. GERMAIN Victim Mistaken For Bear In Second Hunting Tragedy In Week Makes ' Full Statement District Atty. The second hunting tragedy In one week'a time in the forest regions out from Butte Palls occurred yesterday morning when Joe St. Germsin. 30. of Central Point, waa killed by his hunting partner, Relnhard A. Rolf. 34, also of Central Point, who ad mitted to the district attorney last night In a lengthy statement that he mistook St. Germain for a bear and shot him with his .32 Winchester special when he waa crossing a log, 30 feet from hlra. One week ago yesterday Glen Fabrlck, well known Medford business man. was killed in the neighboring region out from Lodge F-le. when mistaken for deer by Ellsworth Konkle with whom he waa hunting. Rolf, who Is held on a charge or Involuntary manslaughter, left the county Jail this morning In the cus tody of officers to visit the scene of the shooting with Sheriff Ralph Jennings, District Attorney Codding and Sgt. James O'Brien of the state police. They are not expected to return from the Investigation until late today as the country Is very rough, located about lx mllea be yond the old Hawk mill and a ahort distance from the Dahack cabin. 20 mllea north of Butte Falls. TJie bullet fired from Rolf's gun. he stated last rUght, entered St. Ger maln'a body through hla back, com ing out under the left arm. Deputy Coroner Walker was of the opinion today, however, that tlie bullet had entered tinder the arm and contin ued through hla back. St. Germain lived 30 minutes after he was shot, according to Rolf's report to the district attorney. No account of the accident was received In Medford until Rolf and other members of the hunting' party arrived In the city with the body after 7:30 o'clock last night. The shot which killed St. Germain, was fired between 7:00 and 8:00 yesterday morning. Rolf told the officers. Close Together 'Reviewing the tragedy, he stated that he had left camp with St. Ger main, who expressed a desire to stay near him because of hla Inexperience In the forests. They traveled for some distance, then St. Germain fell behind. Rolf arrived at two logs and wailed for him to meet him. He whistled and St. Germain answereo. He waited a few minutes but the man did not appear. He started to Hlmh the rldee and had gone 30 feet, when he heard a noise. He turned back and saw what he took to be the outline of a bear on the loir looklne toward the direction from which he had expected St. Germain to come. The figure did not move so he sighted his rifle and nulled the trigger. At the report he saw the flirure slide from the log, then St. Germain's head came Into view. He looked at Rolf he said, and moaned "Oh." "In two or three Jumps I was down there." Rolf explained In his written statement to the district at tornev." He waa still standing up. I laid him on the ground and asked him If he were badly hurt. He ans- wered 'No'." Examining him. Rolf found the bullet hole traveling from the man's back to his side. St. Germain was dressed in blue overalls, a brown 'cost, white cap and white shirt. Rolf removed his cloth ing and endeavored to put him at ease, realizing that his condition was critical. St. Germain lived 30 min utes. Then' Rolf started to camp with the body In search of Fred Mor gan, O. W. Starkey. John Atchlev, Bill Colburn and Frank Netherlands, other members of the hunting party. He arrived at the spring and left the body there to Increase his own speed to csmp. When he arrived the men were out. He bad fired his m,n In Hctr ftlffnal. -bllt It WSS aome time Tlfore anyone arrived. (Continued on Page Eleven) WASHINGTON, Oct . 31 . (AP) The acTlcuIturM credit corporation are now ready to receive crop pro duction. hnrvetlng and marketing loan application. Thu announcement was made by the reconstruction flnanre corpora tion last, night and was accompanied by a statement saying Henry E. Clark, director of the crop production loan faction of Vie department of agri culture, has been appointed AAststant rhief of the acrlcultural division or I the corporation. Clark, it is said, will devote ht time to formulation of po.icles of the agricultural credit corporations ! In conn'?? with crop, harvesting I and marketing loans. is f. d:s plan to E Nominee In Illinois Speech Announces Three-Points Needed Promises Amor- tization Federal Loans SPRINGFIELD, 111., Oct. 21. (AP) Governor Franklin D. Roosevelt In a campaign address before a near ca pacity crowd at the Big springneia arsenal today advanced a three-point orozram for agricultural relief. "The three great atepa which we must take," he Bald, "are, first, the federal government owea it to agricul ture to see that it gets a fair price for Its producta. That means that the price of farm products must be raised above the present ruinously low levels to which they have fallen. "A properly adjusted tariff can do much in this direction, but tne pres ent tariff policies of the republican administration have done precisely the opposite. Pending the relief that will be afforded by properly adjuated tariff policy, measures must be taken to give the farmer Immediate tariff benefit. Thia means in substance practicable plan agreed to by agricul tural leaders which will provide lor the former a higher return for certain of hla crops. I set forth tnese princi ples which such a plan must embody, in my Topeka speech, and these prin ciples have been widely accepted as a basic plan of action In formulating the necessary legislative relief. "Second, there must be lifted from the backs of every farmer the heavy load of taxation which today weigha upon blm. This load la made up of three parts, 'the local, state and 'na tional units. At Pittsburgh I out lined the position of the democratlo party, and my position on the ques tion of the honest balancing of the federal budget and the imperative need of immediate economy in na tional expendlturca. I also reiterate now my promise to exert all available Influence in the position as the -president of the United States toward the reduction of all state and local taxes. "Third, we come to the vastly Im portant principle concerning the bur den which farm mortgages now bear on every agricultural community." Recalling what he said on farm re lief at Topeka at the start of his coast to coast campaign swing, the governor said he wanted to add "that the government ahould make a def inite condition when advancing fed eral credit, that wherever possible Interest rates 'must be lowered for re newed or extended mortgages. "Whenever the government of the United States," he continued, "exer cises any control over the situation It is the duty of that government to de mand every practicable and possible assistance to the farmer seeking credit to finance his crops, an1 his farm, to obtain for him the very low eat reasonable rate of Interest." "The solution of this (farm) prob lem," he said, "Is our first concern In national rehabilitation. . . My program Is opposed to and alma to 8top the ruthlesa foreclosure of farm mortgages. Accusing the administration of be ing "derelict" In employing J,he i 125.000.000 new capital of the fed eral land banks to assist the strug gling farmer debtor, Roosevelt an nounced: - I ahall recommend legislation to the congress for the scaling down of amortization Installments of federal (Continued on Page Six) CHICAGO. Oct. 31. ( AP) Secre tary of Commerce Roy D. Chapln re viewed before the Illinois Manufac turers' association today reports from a score of sources Indicating mprove- ment In general business. Chapln referred particularly to re sults of a department of commerce survey in 200 chambers of commerce, trade asivviatlons and other business groups. Reports from 70 per cent of the group said business was bet ter, Chapln asserted, and in even greater number said public sentl- i ! ment had Improved. "Som very Important organ t ra tions reflect the opinion thatKenu ln Improvement has taken plsre," said. "Amng them are the Cot ton Textile Institute, th Associated Industries of Massachusetts, the Chamber of Commerce of New York Rtate. and the Motor and Equipment Manufacturers Association. ' Expressions of this sort, I believe, mean the renewed confidence so en- dent for the last few months Is suf- , ficlently well established to give us : the backing wa eed for th fight I still ahead." I HOOVERS GREETED MriOeS CAMPA! t -of c 5 . i S fc - r 1 3 it V: It y J, "(.-( David S. Ingalls (left), Republican nominee for governor of Ohio, and Carmi Thompson (right), republican leader, are shown in this Associated Press telephoto welcoming President and Mrs. Hoo ver when they arrived in Cleveland, where Hoover delivered hit second major campaign speech PEOPLE'S PEAR OF Past Record And Pittsburg Speech Of Roosevelt Justifies Attitude. For mal Statement Declares, WASHINGTON, Oct. 21. (AP) An effort "to cast doubt as to the credit of. the national government . for campaign purposes," today was attributed to Governor Roosevelt by Secretary Mills. . In' a formal statement last night replying to the Democratic candi date's Pittsburgh speech the treas ury head said In part: "Governor Roosevelt told an amaz ing story in Pittsburgh last night. "If he does know the facta, the American people must draw their own conclusions from the extraord inary Inaccuracies and distortions contained In his statements and con clusions. . . . "Die governor complains of the Republ lea ns seek i ng to arbufic fear among the people as tho result of his election. But how can lie ex pect anything but fear In the face of the financial record of tho Demo cratic house of representatives? How can ho expect that the fear will do anything but grow when he Titmself. In discussing the fiscal policy of liie federal government deals in terms of fiction rather than fact and worst of all when, for campaign purposes, he seeks to enst doubt as to the credit of the national government?" LIGHT QUAKES IN L LOfi ANGELES. Oct. 21. (API- Two alitrht quaklngs of the earth which caused no reported damage were observed In Los Angrlcs and vicinity today. The second was recorded at 6.-5) a. m.. at tha Carnegie Institution selsmoioglcsl laboratory at Pasadena. lasting only a few seconds. It was noticed In downtown buildings in Los Angeles and In beach towns. The first shock was recorded at 7 :3 a. m. Mail Tribune 1 Intend to Tot for . 1 Intend to tote for . I Intend to tote for , I Intend to io( for riease flit out, with or nil hunt Contest K filt or, Mall Tribune. AT CLEVELAND -V CI winner mnu Special Train To Make 13 Stops En Route Hoover To Speak In New York kCity During Final Week. WASHINGTON. .Oct. 21. (AP) Last hour efforts to complete his Detroit address occupied President Hoover today, as he prepared to leave the capital lunight on his third westward campaign trip. , White House nides said the prcsl- dent waa anxious to finish his speech ' In order to lenvo a crowded Sunday, with 13 stops of hla special train scheduled in West Virginia and Ohio, as free as possible. They Indicated also that Ulf president may choose this address In Detroit tomorrow night to talk about the soldiers' bo nus, a subject Just discussed In Pitts burgh by his Democratic opponent. But no definite statement on de tails of the speech was forthcoming. Last night Mr. Hoover worked late In the Lincoln study of tho White House, assisted by Walter E. Hope, a New York banker and former assist ant secretary of the treasury, and French Strother, of the presidential secretarial staff. They also assisted the president with his Cleveland speech w,'ien he discussed the wage earner and unemployment. . Hope and Strother did not leave the executive mansion until 1 o'clock this morning. Secretary Mills was another with whom Mr. Hoover discussed his Pittsburgh speech yesterday. Ho said Governor Roosevelt's Pittsburgh ad dress also was mentioned In his con ference with the chief executive. Mills plana to answer It next Tues day in Cincinnati. Consideration was given, mean while, to the president's future cm palun plans. Request have ' been made for personal a ppen ranees in Boston, Nework and Philadelphia, while Republican leaders In Now York said arrangements were being made for a speech by Mr. Hoover In Madison Scpiaro Garden cither Octo ber 31 or November 1, ' . 4 Luntern ( bum lire SALEM, Oct. 21. ( AP) William Eppner's lantern caused a more un uAual, ft less spectacular fire at Jef frrson Thursday than did mother O'Leary'a cow-kicked lantern of Chi cago fire fame. Straw Ballot fr rrMent. , for County Judge. for District Attorney. for Sheriff. signature, and mall to Straw Ballot GOOD TIES GN ISSUE Bonus, Budget and Beer Overshadowed East To Be The Battleground In Closing Fortnight. WASHINGTON, Oct. 31. (AP) rho overshadowing stature of the countrya economic plight how It came about and how good tlmea can bo fully restored looms larger and larger over the political scene as the campaign attalna the full fury of Its concluding weeks. This Is one instance in which an Issue accepted as paramount by both sides In the very beginning, actually became paramount In the more ma ture utterances of later weeks, and promises to so continue until the end. To the economic Issue, with Ita many ramifications, Mr. Hoover and Mr. Roosevelt now are devoting al most exclusive attention. Only a very small percentage of any of their speeches takea notice of anything else. When tliey or their principal fol- lowera have mentioned the tariff. they have catalogued It In Ita rela tlon to depression or recovery. When they have talked of farm relief, or labor, or the budget, or currency, or the soldier bonus, or even prohi bition, they have put all of these things against the background of the one central question of economic restoration, nils theme' haa been the burden of Mr. Roosevelt's apeechea on nis present mid-western and southern swing. He apoke of beer aa a rev enue source. He repeated hi prev ious atatement on the bonua dur ing discussion of budget balanc ing. The administration's course with rospoct to the depression will be the burden of Mr. Hoover's speech to morrow night at Detroit, for which he leaves the capital tonight. It will be the burden of hla shorter talks tomorrow aa he crosses West Virginia and Ohio. A host of other speakers, Including many of the most distinguished men In the country, now are debating the same subject from coast to coast. The Issue has taken different form In different localities, but In Ita er. sentlal character It Is the same ev erywhere. During the short time lenwiraoi jriaoHnn rtav Is two weeks from next Tuesday almost every precinct will hear this Issue dlscusaea wnn an Intensity seldom exceeded In American history. Alfred E. omim, Newton D. Baker and Albert O. Ritchie are among those who have come forward for Roosevelt. Henry Ford hss spoken for Hoover; taiTiu Coolldire haa been asked to apeak again for him. In another noiaoie respetn. campaign has again confirmed eany cxpcrtatlona. It has -been character ized hv an unceasing uemocrnuc w- peal for the support of the western Republican Independents, snd by an open participation by sm of their leaders In tne eriorc hi puv Rooevelt Into the White House. The past week haa seen Senator Norria of Nebraska take the stump for Roosevelt; Senator taFollette of Wla- consln declare for Roosevelt: ana Senator Cutting of New Mexico, Join hands with the Democrats In state politics. Except for the continuing efforts of local political leaders, the terri tory west of the Mississippi now sp near to have passed Into the back ground. There atlll Is a possibility (Continued on Paga Six) LA FOLLETTETRKS F CHICAOO, Oct. Si. (API Social lat national campaign headquarters announced today Norman Thomas, the psrty'a nomine efor president, will wind up his campaign on No vember 7 with an address at Mil waukee. The declalcn finish the drive In Milwaukee waa reached, It was i nounced, "partly as a result of the endorsement of Governor Franklin D. Roosevelt by Senator Robert M. Is. Follette." "Hntor La, Follette's endorsement of Roosevelt." said a statement by Clarence Clarence, senior, director of the Socialist campaign, "ahows the progressives are playing around In rlrfies. "We msy now behold the sickening spectacle of the heir to the great La Toilette tradition riding In the band wagon with Owen Young on his right. Vincent Astor on his left, and Prl7flght Promoter Jim Fsrley of v New York .holding the reins." RADIO TALKS TONIGHT (Pacific Standard Time) NBC 7 p. m. Got. Roosevelt from St. Louts. CBS 4:45 p. m. Republican, Mrs. Thomas A. Etllson, Mrs. Mar garet Culkln Banntng, Mrs. Silas H. Strawn and Miss Marlon Mc Clunch. NBG 7:45 p. m. Republican, Charles Francis Coe. LEAH; OMRS GAIN Phipps, Fehl, and Zundel Show Increases In Mail Tribune Count Many Voters Sign Straw Ballots STRAW BAIXOT STANDING For president Hoover MS Roosevelt 38 Thomas 3J For County Judge Oat - M Phipps , - aio Fehl - 100 Pipes 98 For District Attorney Codding .. 119 Brlggs 343 Wllklns - 20 For Sheriff Beeaon . . flofi Sohermerhorrt 20s Zundel 11 Jennings .... lfl.2 Nearlng the home stretch the straw ballot voting approaches aomethlng nearer normal or at least nearer what the straw ballot editor thinks tho actual political condition to be Heretofore Hoovor, Oates and Cod ding and Boeson have run so far ahead of their competitors as to hardly make a contest. Since Mon day, when the last count was print ed, the following ballots have been received at this office: President Hoover 220, Roosevelt M; Thomas 13; (L. A. Banks 1). County Judge Oatea, 168; phipps. 24; Fohl 82; Pipes 34. District Attorney Codding, 182; Brlggs, 128; Wllklns, 0. Sheriff Boeson 118; schermernorn, 36; Zundel, 48; Jennings 72, While Hoover, Oatea and Beeaon still lead by large pluralities, all but the President's percentage of gain have been reduced, and the weaker candldatea particularly Fehl, Pipes and Zundel have shown high per centage Increasea. Fehl Jumping from 4B to 100; Pipes from 12 to 38; Zun del from 24 to 72. ' The relative standing of the vari ous candidates howover remalna the same as on the first ballot, and un less there la unexpected upset, their places will be securely maintained. The next results of tne straw nai- lot will be published In Tuesdas'a paper. Again those readers who have not sent In their marked ballots, re gardless of what their personal pref- e renees may be, are urged to send them In. Although signatures of voters on ballots have not been required, the number who have voluntarily Identi fied themselves In this way, has been very gratifying. The more the votera In the final count sign their ballots the better the atraw ballot editor will be pleased and the more valuable the contest will prove to be. GATES TALKS OVER 6:30 P. M. Tonight from 6:S0 to 7:48. Pop Oatea, Independent csndldate for county Judge will deliver hla aecond address over KMBD to the people of Medford and Jackson county. This address will take up the Important Issues in the campaign, and Pop will go Into more detail than was possible In his first radio talk a week ago. Pop Oatea campaign In the rural districts la aurpaaalng all expecta tions In sire of crowds and genuine enthusiasm. At Rogu River last night there were over 100 local reel denta In attendance, and about the same number the night before at lke creek. Pop haa not only shown unexpected strength as convincing apeakir, dealing with figures and facta, but he has developed a yen for repartee and humor, which provide entertainment to everyone In the audience. The combination, declare thoM' who have followed Pop on his trips Is bsrd to beat. Tonight Pop will deliver an address at. Eagle Point at the Orange hall In that town, at S o'clock, and all voters In that district are cordially Invited , to attend. CHAS. PURSEL IS FATALLY HURT BY Jacksonville Resident Dies On Way To Hospital Partner Escapes Same Fate In Forest Creek Area. Charles Wlllltts Purse', 46. well known resident of thj city and Jacksonville, received fatal Injuries ' this morning when the mine on For rest Creek In which he was employed caved In shortly before noon. He died In the ambulance enroute to Medford. Mr. Pursel started mining on the Schermerhorn property on Forrest creek, out from Jacksonville, about two weeka ago and was Joined there Sunday by O. C. Bernol. The men were preparing to clean up the slulca boxes, which were In the creek bed near a bank. 12 to IB rect In height, when tho slide started. A portion of the bank suddenly gave way. drop ping below, pinning Pursel under It. He waa burled to hla waistline. Bernol who was outside the path of the slide, removed his partner from the I wife, a member of tile M. M. depart ment etore staff In this city, and Port a ambulance. When the ambu lance arrived, John Perl stated ttils afternoon, the man was still alive. He died on the trip to Medford, evi dently from Internal Injuries. His left foot was broken by the crash and Internal organa obviously crushed. Mr. Pursel was born at Jacksonville February 30, 1888, tha son of Charles C. and Mary Pursel. . He had spent -all hla life In thia vicinity. He waa married io Edna Wick, De cember 6. 1930 In Medford. She, his mother, Mrs. Msry A. Pursel, and two brothers and two sisters survive him, also one stepson, Norton Wicic The brothers and slaters are: Nelson Pursel of Jacksonville; George Pursel, Medford; Mrs. Delia Silva, Grants Pass; Mrs. Esther Medley, Jackson ville. Funeral arrangements will be an nounced later by the Perl Funeral home. Pear Markets CHICAGO, Oct. 21. (AP-TJ. 8. D. A.) Cars, 3 New York, 3 Oregon, 6 Washington arrived; !4 cars on track: 4 sold. Oregon Banc 887 bows. extra fancy 1.752.45, aversga $2.17; loo boxes, fancy $10i3.as, avesnge 3.13. NEW YORK, Oct. 31. (AP-U. 8. D. A.) Cars, 14 arrived; 4 California, IS Oregon, 2 Washington unloaded; 31 on track. 1 New York, by boat; mar ket steady to good. Oregon Bone 3020, extra fancy 91.70 rvr 3.15, few 91.00, average 91.07; fancy 9 1.45 (ft 2. 20. avg. 91.71. Oregon Bnrts Mfi5, extra fancy 91.46(3 1.05; tops 91.25ft1.50, average 9165; fancy 91.1103.20; tops 91-25, average 91.6V Pioneer Pnsses PORTLAND, Ore., Oct. 21. (AP) George Berry Gray, 74, formerly of Balcm. and a member of a prominent pioneer family there, died In 8eattle Wednesday, frlenda here were advised today. He ,had been engaged with his brothr, Will T. Gray, In the hard ware business In Seattle since 1004, WILL- ROGERS BUENOS AIRES, Ot. 20. You folks might think you are hip folks up there as a nation, font you don't menu anything down here. I haven't seen one word cE news printed about the United States since I left Hrownsville, Texas, and that includes Spanish or any other kind of paper. The Englishmen have got , this country tied up tighter thnn Horah has Idaho. lias the election hecn called off, or just, what has happened ? The big news down here is tho argument between Ireland ami England. There is a big mess of both of 'em down here. Hit, stWIwie. lea,','