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SUNDAY. OCTOBER 23, 1960
MEDFORD MAIL TRIBUNE, MEDFORD, ORE.
. Communications . . .
Letters to the Editor must bear the name and address of the writer, although under
certain circumstances the use oi a pen nam or initial for publication is permissible.
The Mail Tribune reserves the right to edit all letters with a view to clarification and
condensation. Letters submitted for publication must not exceed 400 words. The letters
printed in this column do not necessarily represent the views of the paper; in fact the
contrary is often the case.
She Is Confused
To the Editor: With my
sample ballot before me I
am a very confused voter.
Proposition No. IS states:
"Prohibiting certain advertis
ing signs within 660 feet of
inter-state highways and
throughways."
What does "certain" mean?
It sounds' discriminative.
What Oregon roads are con
sidered inter-state highways
and throughways? There must
be more than two, - but the
petition listed only 99 and
30. Now 'I see why that peti
tion was so rightly called
"Petition of Deceit."
No. 15 continues: "Regu
lates permissible on-premise
and business signs." How
would an on-premise sign ben
efit a farmer? No farm has
direct access to a freeway.
But at every inter-change or
clover-leaf on-premise or bus
iness signs would be of ter
rific benefit to the owner of
adjacent property giving him
a monopoly on highway ad
vertising. And the rest of us,
who also pay taxes to help
build better roads and better
schools, would have our ad
vertising shoved 660 feet
away from every .major high
way in Oregon.
When numerous businesses
fail because of loss of tourist
trade and so are forced to
quit paying taxes to support
such things as schools, the
Izaak Walton Leaguers, the
Gardeni' Clubbers and all the
other misguided anti-bill-boarders
are going to find
beautiful green Oregon very
blue.
I have a particularly per
sonal interest in this issue
because my husband, who has
one-half of 1 per cent eye
sight left, is frantic with the
thought of losing his way
of earning a living. We have
a restaurant on a side road
and our business is highly de
pendent on tourists leaving
Highway 99 and coming up
here. He does not believe
tourists will see billboards an
eighth of a mile from 99.
. All voters should know that
a regulatory billboard law
was passed by our legislature
in 10KB and iust became ef
fective August 1, 1960. Our
present law includes spacing
and upkeep of signs and au
thorizes the Bureau of Labor
tn tnke steos toward their
removal when signs are not in
good condition. Why not give
our present law a chance to
Tunrk?
Both Mrs. Maurine Neuber-
r and Mr. Elmo smitn sup
port No. 15. What a blow it
was to realize that we in busi
ness have no candidate for
thp II. S. Senate. As a protest,
many of us in southern Ore
gon are turning w a wrue-m
vrto for E. E. Carpenter. You
may have read his recent let
ter in this column . .. . oi
October 11.
Mrs. Ruth McClain
Alderbrook Cafe
Sardine Creek rd.
Gold Hill, Ore.
that we get in the mail? Why
did it happen to show up dur
ing the campaign and not
during the primaries? Who
to benefit by this militant
throw-away of little booklets?
We wonder? No. '
And yet we have seen the
pattern before in California.
We think the queen doth pro
test too much.
Walter Reece
Galice rd.
Merlin, Ore.
All the Way
To the Editor: Let us all
vote for the candidate who
can do the working man the
most good, democratic Sena
tor J. F. Kennedy!
How any man who works
for a living can vote for a
party which has long been
known for its tight money
policy, is more than I can
imagine! For it not only af
fects the living standards of
the working man and small
business alike, but it also af
fects the economic growth of
America as well.
Extravagant spending, I
agree, is not the key to prog
ress, but investment by our
Government, to help stimulate
employment, especially here
in the lumber industry, the
back-bone of the Northwest,
provides the working man
buying power, to help him
purchase what he helps to produce.
It is not enough to vote for
man and his good morals, or
his ideals, which are import
ant, but also to take a good
look at the party platform,
which he represents. It is
strange to see the Republicans
have the most liberal plat
form ever, and I wonder why!
Let's make it, "All rne
Way, with J. F. K."
E. L. Nelson,
Box 43, .
Klamath River, Calif.
Cheer Up
To the Editor: Cheer up
Folks, the worst is yet to
pome. We are heading into
one of our periodic depres-
clnnc and it is going to take
a good aviator to pull us out
of this nose dive. When we
do pull out of it we will not
look the same. Of course we
could get in a war with Cuba
4o holster our economy, but
would not advise it.
Mr. Nixon says if he gets
In the White House he will
nut strlD Russia and then
some. Now we don't crave
to be stripped any more than
we are now, but we are not
masters of our destiny. Nei
ther will Mr. Nixon have it
all to say with a Democrat
Congress. It might be better
to elect Mr. Kennedy because
v, Tipmocrats are more
But no matter which boy
Is elected it is the opinion of
this writer that we will be
trailing the Soviet Union in
science, education, steel pro
rfr.tinn. electric voltage, for
eign trade, social security,
sports, standard of living,
lumbering, building and gen-
aral nrnprpss.
However, we will excell
In -crime ill health, death on
the highways, cars, highway
construction and all me omer
persuits of "Freedom." But
from our judgment of the two
men we will be more happy
with Kennedy. He looks the
part. He has that sincere ex
tiression that is so hard tc
match A willingness to grap
ple with reality. Yet he does
not imply that he is an in
dispensible man. Tha'is all
to the good because we do
not wish to be sirucK ui.
mon tht cannot be replaced
We have had too much of
that already.
There is a campaign tech-
ninue against Mr. Kennedy
that has us puzzled and wor
ried. The puzzle is: wno is
nrnviriins the money for all
this anti-Catholic propaganda
Oh, Oh, Oh.
To the Editor: In these crit
ical times, we need to acquaint
all of our citizens, even tne
very young, with the foreign
oolicy issues which tne presi
dential candidates are debat
ing. Putting the issues in sim
ple language, like their school
books, might help. For ex
ample: ' i
My First Reader,
or
How Sally Kept Her
Prestige
'Run, Sally, run,
Try to beat the Russians.
I don't have to run!
Why,- Sally, why?
Because Mr. Nixon says so.
We have the Russians beat.
Run, Spot, run.
Try to catch the ball.
That is not a ball.
That is Sally's head.
Oh! Oh! Oh!
' George W. Rode,
Fluhrer Bldg.,
Medford.
Ria Lis Technlaue
To the Editor: I've been lis
tening on radio to the most
concentrated, vicious, mislead
ing campaign ever the one
against billboard regulation,
They label it the unemploy
ment measure, the depression
measure, and assert that it
will ruin our tourist Industry
which is so ridiculous that
I would not be concerned if
it were not for the demon
strated truth Of Hitler's theory
that, if you told a falsehood
often enough, many would be
lieve it.
I do considerable travelling
hv car and believe I know
something of the feelings of
those touring. Belore leaving
I know which brand of gaso
line I'll use; I know whether
or not I'll want cigarettes,
beer, or soft drinks and what
brands I'll want; 1 am nui in
terested in the many bill
boards advertising these
things that clutter up the
roadside and obscure signs of
tourist accomodations that DO
interest me, and which would
still be allowed in appropri
ate places under the proposed
act. If one state forbade un
necessary signs on a few of
its through highways and an
other did not, I'd travel
through the state that regu
lated signs if it were half-way
convenient.'
So much for the big lie
that this measure Will ruin
tourist industry. As soon as
people hear of it, it will im
prove it.
I see many signs along
hiehways I travel, urging one,
if tired, to travel by a certain
railroad. Diane or bus line
What do you think that will
do to the business in the
motels?
This is a fight between sel
fish interests most of them
big ones with big money and
the rest of us who want to
make it enjoyable to travel in
our beautiful state.
I can see the interest of the
big beer companies; auto and
easoline manufacturers; ciga
rette, soft-drink and patent
drug brands, even a few of
the largest motels that do sat
uration advertising man
miles from their locations
might profit. But I cannot be
lieve with some of my friends
in motel business that they
will be hurt on the contrary.
With more tourists on the
o a d enjoying uncluttered
scenery, and with proper signs
in each vicinity advertising
the motels, restaurants, etc.,
in that community, you'll get
your fair snare ot tnat in
creased business.
Let's vote "YES" on this;
uncover our scenery; increase
the tourist business; and get
that small but substantial ex
tra money for roads that the
federal government gives for
such enlightened action.
D. H. Barber,
Star rt.,
Trail, Ore.
Awake"
To the Editor: In last
Wednesday's Tribune was a
letter written by someone
from Jacksonville who had
been given a copy of
Awake" magazine. Accom
panying his letter were com
ments by tne editor.
I. too. received a copy oi
this SDecial issue of "Awake
And I also felt as did the
writer from Jacksonville that
here was a series of articles
which all persons should
read, Catholic and non-Catholic
alike.
It is difficult to see how
anyone could 'become offend
ed at these articles, or now
anvone could claim that they
mlsreDresented tne t-amonc
church. And this because the
majority of the statistics and
quotations were direct state
ments made by the Catholic
clergy themselves and other
members of the Koman uain-
lip hierarchy. If prominent
Catholics who administer and
control that religious system
speak out on Catholic belief
and practices, is it wrong iur
non-Catholics to quote tnem
as authority for statements
made?
T believe that you as
newspaperman will agree that
Catholic DOlicy has been con
siderably different in lands
where this church is in a mi
nority than it is in lands
where it is in the majority.
One doesn't have to go back
into Dark-Age history to learn
nf this hut merely look at
the modern-day examples oi
Spain, Quebec, Columbia, and
other soutn ana w,
American countries.
So isn't it rather important
to know of these facts, and
what the Catholic church's
position is on the Bible, free
dom, schoolSr etc.?
This copy of "AwaKe" mag
azine was in no way trying
tn rienv Catholics the ngnt
to practice their religion, but
only to alert the American
people to what nappens iu
freedom and other demo
cratic ideals when an authori
tarian church system gains
control of the political gov
ernment.
James H. morse,
261 Meade st.,
Ashland, Ore.
being used to provide good
roads, and then have a sub
stantial portion of those taxes
used to support other govern
mental functions. We believe
this is unfair discrimination
against an already over-bur
dened tax payer.
This is the substance of our
message. It is being sent to
our customers, not to find
fault with the principle of tax
ing motorists for highways,
but simply to alert motorists
that their taxes are not being
fully used for the purpose
they believe they are paying.
Robert T. Kenney
Texaco, Inc.
Los Angeles, Calif.
the Democrats feel this way
there would not be a Repub
lican elected to office in Jack
son county, because of the
Democratic majority.
The fact that our two ma
jor parties are so evenly bal
anced, is what makes our
country the best place on
earth to jive. If either party
were in complete control, we
would be very little, if any,
better off than the dictator or
communist controlled coun
tries. So let us keep it this
way by voting for the man
and forget the party and re
ligion.
G. H. Walter
635 Glenwood dr.
Ashland, Ore. .
Vote Democratic
To the Editor: In common
with thousands of other seri
ous minded people I think the
most pressing economic ques
tion confronting the people
of Oregon and especially those
of the. 4th District is the ex
tremely sick condition of the
lumber and plywood industry
and the hardships it works on
a large segment of the pop
ulation, not only the mill own
er and his employees, most
of whom were not getting
rich on a full week, let alone
on the part time or no job
at all, but also the merchants,
service station owners and
countless trades and services.
The ills of the lumber In
dustry were caused by politi
cal factors and must be cured
the same way. The tight mon
ey, high interest policy of the
Eisenhower-Nixon administra
tion, the financial finagling
that made it almost impossi
ble to get either an FHA or
veterans loan, a cut in the
federal highway program so
we could have several hun
dred more millions to dump
into foreign aid, a veto of the
public works bill, an aid to
education killed by Nixon's
vote, and three vetoes count
lem) of housing bills passed
by the Democratic congress,
are some of the factors.
Now, in view of this sorry
record, that amounts to bank
ruptcy and worse to many of
us, the Republican party nas
(I hate the word "guts" but
that is what it is) to ask the
neonle of Oregon to send
them back to Washington. If
we are stupid enough to do it
we might as well rent Oregon
out for goat pasture.
We are going to have a
Democratic congress anyway,
so for Pete's sake what could
Smith or Durno do for us if
thev wnited to. and does any
one think they really do want
to help the common man;
So let's send Neuberaer and
Porter to Congress so that
when they help pass a bill
that will put the loggers and
lumbermen back to work,
they know their labor is not
in vain because a great presi
dent, John F. Kennedy, will
sign anything that helps-the
people.
Gus unstrup
Box 273
Sutherlin, Ore.
Texaco Clarifies ,
Tn the Editor: Our atten
tion has just been called to
the editorial appearing in
vmir Oct. 10 issue entitled
Too Hlgn ior wnair
We do not agree that gaso-
linp nrices are too high. As a
matter of record, the price of
gasoline itself has gone up
over the past ten years far
less than any other commoui-
ty purchased by the consum
ing nublic. while the quality
of this gasoline has increased
snhstantiallv.
What we do say is that tne
in on easoline is too nign,
and we are trying to point
out to the American public
that the taxes they pay when
they buy gasoline are un
necessarily high for tne pur-
Dose they ostensibly serve.
I th nk ail oi us agree on
the need for and the advan-
taee of eood roads and we
recognize that they must be
oaid for by taxes. Our quarrel
- and it forms the basis for
the warning we are trying to
sound to American tax payers
is with the unnecessarily
high taxes being charged mo
torists.
The facts are that even
without the "temporary" one
cent Federal gasoline tax im-
oosed last year, the Govern
ment already collects enough
revenue through existing gaso
line taxes and other automo
tive user taxes, to pay the en
tire cost of the Federal High
wav Program if some of
these funds were not diverted,
to other sources.
Over $1.5 billion in special
taxes paid by highway users
are currently diverted into
the eeneral fund each year.
These taxes include excise
taxes on automobiles, trucks
and buses, parts and acces
sories, and lubricating oils. Of
everv dollar the motorist con
tributes in special Federal
taxes, 40 cents is withheld
from the highway, program
and spent for the support of
the general Government.
Texaco does not agree that
the motorist should pay spe
cial taxes which he thinks are
People Laughed, They Did
To the Editor: A few years
ago, somevun predicted dere
vould soon be 2 cars in efery
garage, und people laughed.
Vot do you tink to-day, ven
you got vun barbecue pit in
der backyard, 2 cars in der
garage, 3 barbecued shickens
in der rotisserles, und 4 serv
ice stations in der front yard?
On my first trip into der
Trinity Alps, Aye run out uf
tires und gasoline in Peanut's
Creek, or vas It Hyampoom,
Chanchelulla, Yolla Bolly or
Bully Choop Creek? It don't
make no difference, it vas
still 60 miles to der nearest
service station. Did you efcr
try packing 5 gallons uf gaso
line und a set uf tires on a
burro? Ven Ve vot to Veaver-
ville, der burro decided he
vas going to stay dere, so Ve
loaded him into a vheelbar-
row, und took him to Peanut's
Creek.
A few veeks ago, Aye had
a flat tire in Medford. It vas
der only place left to have a
flat tire (right in front uf a
service station). Two attend
ants run out und changed der
tire before Aye could get a
penny in der parking meter.
und Aye vent to yail, und
paid 50c. Today, if you run
out uf gasoline, you got to
run out in somebody's service
station, und you say, "Times
vas getting vorse."
Everett Acklin
Ashland, Ore.
Eve, John, Eddie
To the Editor: In reading
the campaign promises of
one of the Democratic candi
dates for the legislature in
last Tuesday's Mail Tribune,
we had to read one proposal
twice before we could believe
anyone would propose such a
ridiculous measure, as that
the holder of the mortgage
or the one who makes the
loan on a farm or home
should have to pay the taxes
on their equity.
What individual or what
loan agency would be so
dumb as to make any loans
in the state under such a law?
Might as well make their in
vestments in Cuba.
While we feel confident
that such a vicious measure
would never get off the floor
when it came to a vote, we
feel that it would well be
hoove the voters of Jackson
county to give careful con
sideration to whom they se
lect to represent them in the
next legislature. Oregon
needs more investment
money, not less.
Mrs. Eve Nye has well pro
ven her qualifications, and
John Dellenback shows pro
mise, and we feel that we
should speak a word for lit.
Durno.
We have known Dr. Durno
as our physician and friend
for over 25 years. As a doc
tor, we have found him thor
ough, capable, and conscien
tious. and as a friend, irann
fair, and considerate, and we
believe that the people of the
4th Congressional District
would be very fortunate to
have a man of such integrity
and qualifications to repre
sent them in Congress. There
isn't much danger of Eddies
grabbing the ball and run
ning in the wrong direction.
John Neaion
Route 2, Box 279
Central Point, Ore.
S.O.S.
To the Editor: It will per
haps be well to title this letter
an S.O.S. for help. No I'm
not calling for help and neith
er has anyone asked me to.
Some months ago one of my
friends began to present an
inspirational type of radio
program in this area. His over
20 years of active radio ex
perience, plus one of the fin
est Christian characters of any
man I've ever met, have caus
ed me to evaluate his efforts
most highly.
Recently an Ashland man
had a local person tell him
that the "Quiet Hour" had
saved her life, Because of cer
tain pressing problems, de
spondency had set in and she
was about to take her own
life.
She tuned In to the "Quiet
Hour." She is alive today be
cause of the Heaven-sent mes
sage that day, which she says
was Just for her.
I am not partial to this par
ticular program. However if
you parents who read these
lines had a child with a brok
en arm you'd give that child
some particular attention.
Pastor Tucker has written
that he has been forced to
discontinue the "Quiet Hour"
beginning Nov. 1, unless a
"miracle happens." That mir
acle is, perhaps, up to some
who read these lines. You can
not operate a radio program
on just good will. It costs mon
ey. It is hoped this letter is In
print ere the final" broadcast.
It's on Sunday at 12:30, 730
KC on your dial, a good strong
Medford station.
For any who might question
the intentions of this broad
cast, just listen In once. It's
only object is to help its
listeners. Pastor Tucker does
not receive a cent for his per
sonal use. He is a retired min
ister, but not too tired to still
work for his Master. The
writer will be happy to fur
nish more particulars to those
who desire them. v
Henry Johnson Jr.
2400 Highway 66
Ashland, Ore.
born fruit and will continue
to do so. She has offered as
one plum that peace has been
preserved, that a policy of
negotiation , is a seed well
sown and to be cultivated.
While I admire Mrs. Neu-
berger, I feel compelled to
express a point of view from
another part of the garden.
The course of events in the
last few weeks to the con
trary notwithstanding, nego
tiation may be of some help.
But Mrs. Neuberger's position
appears tenuous when it is
considered that the intent of
the Soviet Union has not be
come clear as one which ad
vocates the honoring of con
tact, of order, and indeed, of
peace itself. The question is
raised whether the Soviet
Government is . treating the
conference table as a means
to its own design, and not
to settlement of the several
questions before it in a just
and equitable way, such set
tlement to be governed by
the adherence to the contracts
it has produced.
Several obligations of the
U.S.S.R. are in default, in
cluding those of the Imperial
Russian Government, which,
acknowledged or not, the
present Russian Government
has inherited. Among others
there is a question concern
ing $11,260,343,603 in U.S.
goods delivered to the U.S.
S.R. under Lend-Lease. Nego
tiations, begun in May, 1947
aiming at a settlement of this
debt, ended without result
In assuming further nego
tiations to be worthwhile,
one might at least have the
lack of adverse experience
upon which to base his as
sumDtion. Yet, question re
mains as to the intent of the
U.S.S.R. at Potsdam, Tehran,
Yalta, its agreement with the
state of Egypt to help with
the Aswan Dam, etc., etc.
In my opinion, advocating
a policy of negotiation with
a Eovernment which has not
dembnstrated its intent to up
hold the agreements into
which it has already entered
is advocating a policy of
grasping, at straws.
Clyde u. i,BmD or,
331 South Ivy St.,
Medford.
Grasping at Straws
To the Editor: In speaking
at the Candidates' Fair Thurs
day evening, Mrs. Maurine
Neuberger, insofar as I under
stood her, defended the prop
osition that efforts of the
United States ( to negotiate
with the Union of Soviet
Socialist Republics have
Reliable Elephant
To the Editor; Some of the
campaigning Democrats are
being true to their emblem,
The Donkey," un-prediclable
and un dependable, either
kicking or braying, with HST
being the Chief Brayer. '
A Grants Pass writer said
the Demos were builders and
referred to the Columbia
dams. Where was he when
Coulee dam construction be
gan? Then the Demos came
in and stopped the construc
tion, saying there was a sur
plus of stock and grain, why
have more Irrigation to raise
more grain to burn and more
stock to knock in the head?
Russia said if they would go
ahead and finish they would
buv the surplus (which they
didn't do) and made alliance
with U. S. Now the Demo
crats take the credit for the
dam was built during Repub
lican administration and the
Demos couldn't take the cred
it, they changed the name to
Boulder during their admin
istration. Poor, steady, de
pendable and reliable Ele
phant doesn't get credit for
anything.
Much Is being said about
unemployment, yet there is
a decided decrease and wages
are at an all time high. Few
families have less than .two
cars plus a boat and all kinds
of electrical appliances. Does
that look like our nation is
starving?
One candidate says we are
secondary to Russia in prog-,
ress and are losing prestige
with other nations. One thing
America is ahead of Russia.
That is the consumption of
"alcohol beverages." Yale
School of Alcoholic studies
give these figures. America
consumes 7.18 quarts per capi
ta while Russia consumes 1.85
quarts per capita. THIS should
make America blush Instead
of boast. Is it any wonder
America has lost prestige with
other nations?
We hear little about this
because America's Liquor
King with his multi-millions
is trying to buy the White
House for his son Jack. It is
time Christian America wakes
up and save the youths from
this damaging demon "Alco
hol." Verla Snnto
204 Lozier lane
Medford.
Vote for the Man
To the Editor: A week or so
ago you published a letter
from a lady (name forgotten)
recommending several Repub
lican cfftdidatesQln closing
she also recommended that
everyone vote a straight Re
publican tkket.
The vcg of a straight
party ticket now days is about
as popular as a horse and
buKsv or having a "Chick
Sales" In the back yard. If
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.Kfito ftiXyjfk . ; or shinrrd trrpld In nur ficlorr. ny nrt or parts. MliMIMiiiMaM
ZZmc4. " M.UfcH AUTOMATIC IS I
IS J ,-Jff DISPENSING ' I
I V'rMS, 'Of SHETLAND fyf I
Xu&rsS? -.T-Nl Of nuj weaning:
A fil2 rug ill eosti
lti thin SOcI Yt, you
can do t your floor
tnd'ruQ work Aulomtl
oily, with thl i ShtlUndl
Scrub. wt poliih nd
buff all floor i, ihampoo
all rugi'smd earpatt at
flick of a twitch and
a touch of thi flngarl
TtA
fr-mfe
Complat with: AIIpurpoit
bruihai, wool fait buffing
padt, automatic liquid dli
pantar. Rug cltantng unit
inampoe.
29
95
49JT.'A I ass -rn UPlCTAn ' ' f r WM
ALL TRANSISTOR
Portable TAPE RECORDER
Special Only
(0195
RECORDS AND PLAYS BACK
VOICE OR MUSIC . . .
OPERATES ANYWHERE, ANYTIME!
Truly poriobfa, lightweight, mpat to rtterdtr oprolt
Indgori or aur ... on 4 ttandord (lathlfgnt bahtrlai. Ut
onywher. Phono-Trl Math II - Ii olwoyi ready to racard
ond play back, vaiu or mm It. Up I 50 mlnultf rttording
tim on ont dual track warding topt, Praililon-mod in
Wttt Carmony, Fhono-Tfll Mark II- (l idtol (or rty nt
who Irovalii Wandirful for fomlly fvinl
Moaiuros uit 9"xiV"t fori obit at a Camiro.
Weight Only 5 Pound. With Cast and BaHtrlti.
7i
u y
I
VIA
TO PAY
Complt wilh MUrophont,
3" Roil of Tapt and takt
up Xttl.
PHONO-TRIX ACCESSORIES
AC ADAPTER
Ad J pier prrmiti you 1o
uie your Phono-Tnx on
110-V AC currintt bio
tongs lift Of bltkfln...
1 MEL (125 ft) L0K6-PLAY TAP! 11
STUrtOSCOPE-TVPI EARPHOHd -
Afiunt compltt listen, ft
tne privacy ind iifml. V 1
natt s noiie ind other dit-
Ifieliom , . . leivn ff.
hinds Irei for trplnr - $ MS I
radio PICK-UP CABU. Per direct ft
cordlni from radio or phonoiriph $ t.ii
ItLEPHONE PICK-UP
AND AMPLIFIER
Provides i compute.
curati record of boih.
Sides of wnvir tenon tj
impimis ior group ui
ten inf. Pick-uo heed it-
liehei to teleohont wilt)
suction cup Ml
122 East Main Medford Phone Sp 3-5348
Slors Hours: 9:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. Open Mondays Until 9 p.m.