y M Shelves
mi Cobai
Debase
Rogue Valley Edition '
Medford
16 Pages
Veteran Dies While
Friend Attempts to
Obtain Assistance
A 88-yriir-old disabled veto
rnn died at the Hex hold Sun
day afternoon while friend
wns mnkliw (utile attempt In
set help rnrni the White City
domiciliary.
Henry C. Hersog, doml
ciliary manager, lold tha
Mall Tfibuna that racerdt
at tha .domiciliary ihowad
that tha lalaphona operator
there had received a lala
phona call about 2 p.m.
8unday reporting man
111 at tha Hax holal. Tha
voice wii raportad to ba
garblad.
Hanog axplainad tha! tha
talaphona oparator only had
access to tha locator cardi
el pratent mambart at tha
domiciliary 10 Baa'i nama
would not have baan llitad.
Ha addad lhal II lha callar
thought that lha man wai
arloutly HI ha ihould have
aikad for a phyiician at tha
hospital.
Tha managar addad that
lalaphona calli to tha domi
ciliary ragardlng tick par
toni ara not uncommon. Ha
taid that In many eases
frlandi will call from local
tavarm to raport aomaona
111.
Hanoq itrtnad that Raa
had applied at lha domicili
ary July 7 for readmit
lanca and wa strongly ad
vliad at that tlma that ha
hould ba admlliad immedl
ataly. Raa told tha domi
ciliary registrar that ha had
to raturn to Madford for
oma paraonal belonging.
Ha did nol raturn to tha
domiciliary.
Dead Is Jnmcs Albert Ren,
a resident at the Rex hotel.
A doctor attributed his denth
1o an apparent lu-n i t nttnek.
Othcl Wnlker Russell, nlso
of tho Rex hotel nnd a friend
of Rca, lold the Miiil Tribune
Hint he personally cnllcd the
White City hospital twice In
nn effort to net help for Rac,
but he wns refused both times.
Rca died nt 2:30 p.m. Rus
VAX "
FUTURE MILL SITE Shown In tho Initial
singes of construction Is the proposed ply
wood mill silo for tho Medford Corporation.
Workers nre now preparing the south end
of tho rIIc with some of the concrete found
ation forms already being laid. B, L. (Bud)
Nutting, general manngcr, said that fill dirt
Is being taken from the ares shown to build
MEDFORD, OREGON,
sell sntd he called the Domi
ciliary once at 1:30 and a sec
ond time at 2:10 p.m.
Russell said he was sure
Rca belonged at the Domicil
iary because he always picked
up lilt mall there.
When Rra started having
difficulty breathing about 1:13
p.m., Russell said, ha could
tell he was In "bad shape" so
he left the hotel to get to .a
telephone.
When he called the Domi
ciliary, Russell said, he told
the man on duly that there
was a man at the hotel who
was In need of medical assist
ance and ha was sure he be
longed at the Domiciliary.
Russell said tho attendant
said he couldn't find the man's
record' there and could not
help him.
' Thinking that he may have
made a mistake about his be
longing at White City, Rus
sell went back to the hotel
and double-checked. At this
time, he said, Rea was much
worse.
With a DAV card in his
hand Russell again called the
Domiciliary and this time
pleaded with the attendant
saying: "this man needs help,
I know he belongs there."
Again he was refused assist
ance. Russell said the attend
ant told him that because he
couldn't find Men's record he
wouldn't bother the officer of
the day.
Not knowing what else to
do, Russell said he then called
Medford police. No attempt
wns made to contact any of
the other hospitals, he snld.
By the time police arrived,
Rca had died.
Elizabeth Phcbus, mnnagcr
of the Rex hotel, said Rca
had been In the Domiciliary
until about a year ago, when
he was discharged.
However, Mrs. Phebus said
Ren told her recently that he
hnd been cleared for readmls
slon and could go back any
time.
up the place where the mill will be situated.
The area will then be filled with waste dirt.
The scene above Is looking cast toward
North Pacific highway. Construction on tho
project began earlier this month, with the
completion date set for sometime next
spring, Nutting said.
55th
TUESDAY, JULY 19, 1960
Russia Demands
That US Mission
Leave the Congo
Unltad Press International
The Soviet Union demand
ed today that the United
States Immediately withdraw
a 20-man military mission It
said was stationed in Leo
polvlllc, capital of the Congo.
The Soviet demand was
made by Foreign Minister
Andrei Gromyko In Moscow
as Dolglum began withdraw-
Tickets for Feast
Still Available,
Manager Reports
Ashland - Tickets for the
Oregon Shakespearean Festi
val's Feast of the Tribe of Will
July 23 still are available,
William Patton, general man
ager, said today.
Patton added that tickets
for the Lithia park banquet,
which will feature Oregon
produced foods, are expected
to be sold out soon, and Fes
tival patrons planning to at
tend should order them as
soon as possible.
The banquet starts at t p.m.
next Monday. The first play,
"Tha Taming of the Shrew,"
will sUirt in the Festival's
Ellzabothcan theater at 8:30
p.m. Tickets for the first
night play have all been sold,
Patton aald.
The banquet Is being pre
pared In cooperation with the
Oregon Broilers association
and the Medford Junior
Chamber of Commerce.. En
tertainment will Include Ash
land's Kilty band, the Festival
Dancers and the strolling
singers.
Patton aald ticket sales for
the 20th season continue to
lead last year's total, but good
seats still are available for
all 40 nights which follow
Monday's opening play.
In addition to "The Taming
of the Shrew," other Shakes
peare plays being presented
this year Include "Julius
Caesar," "The Tempest." and
"Richard II." John Webster's
"The Duchess of Malfi" will
be staged Aug. 22 and 31 only.
The season ends Sept. 3 with
"The Tempest."
Reservations for the ban
quet and all plays may be
made at the Festival's central
box office In Ashland; Mann't
Department store, Medford;
Redwoods hotel. Grants Pass;
Wl-Ne-Ma hotel, Klamath
Falls; The Inn, Mt. Shasta,
Calif.; and the Treasure
Trove, Shady Cove. -
Elections Official
To Be in Medford
Jack Thompson, director of
elections for Oregon, will
meet with representatives of
southwest Oregon counties
here Aug. 8, nccording to
County Clerk Marvin Madden
this morning.
Madden said this will be a
prc-gcneral election meeting
to discuss election details. It
is one of four such meetings
being held In the state. Others
are scheduled for Bend, Gear
hart and Wallowa.
Year Price 10 Cents
Tribune
No. 103
Ing Its troops from Leopold
vlllc and announced it would
demand a U.N. embargo on
Community and other arms
for the Congo.
The Tass news agency said
Gromyko told Charge d'Af-
fuircs Edward Frccrs, that un
less the American mission is
withdrawn "the Soviet gov
ernment will have to draw
the appropriate conclusions
from this in Its actions."
No Military Forcas
It was not Immediately
clear what Gromyko was
talking about. The United
States has a handful of tech
nicians and ground crews in
Lcopoldvillc helping bring in
U.N. supplies and troops and
some helicopter rescue crews
but no military forces.
The United States rejected
a Congolese demand that it
send in trofiu io help keep
order' and suggested a U.N.
force be sent Instead. On the
other hand there have been
Soviet threats against Belgian
colonialism in the Congo.
Gromyko told Frccrs the
Soviet government "expects
the above-mentioned military
group to be immediately witn-
drawn from the territory of
the Republic of the Congo.
Radio Report
Moscow Radio cited an
American press report as say
ing Americans had landed at
Leopoldvtlle to "render aid in
operations by troops which
were being sent to certain
states to the (,ongo in con
formity with the known deci
sion of the Security Council.
: Dr. Ralph Bunche. chief
United Nations representative
in Lcopoldvillc, announced
the withdrawal of Belgian
troops from the capital and
said the move would be com
pleted by Saturday night.
U.N. forces were pouring
Into Lcopoldvillc by the hun
dreds and complete pull-out of
Belgium s troops is expected
when the U.N. force is strong
enough to maintain law and
order throughout the new
republic.
School Annexation
To Be Discussed
More than 100 people liv
ing in the area south of Bar
nett rd. are expected to at
tend the Jackson County Re
organization committee meet
ing at 8 p.m. tomorrow in the
county courthouse to discuss
annexation of the area to the
Medford school district. '
The area, which is south
of Barnctt rd. and east of
Bear creek is now in the Phoe
nix district, but within the
Medford city limits. Attorney
Frank Van Dyke, represent
ing the people of the area de
siring annexation, claimed
previously that he hnd peti
tions with 100 per cent of the
resident's signatures. Twelve
more signatures representing
newer residents have been
turned into the county school
office office on another pe
tition from the Barnctt rd.
area residents, he said.
A large group of Phoenix
school dlsrict residents with
their attorney Ben Lombard
of Ashland nre also expected
to attend the meeting.
Coffee Prices To
Be Reduced Here
Prices of most 1 standard
brands of coffee arc expected
to be reduced 2 cents per
pound at locnl stores, It was
reported todny.
One mnjor food compnny
plnns lo reduce coffee prices
effective tomorrow, and It wns
Indicntcd thnt other mnjor
firms probnbly would follow
suit in the nenr future.
Most mnjor brands of cof
fee now retail nt 77 cents per
pound and $1.53 for two
pounds. The new retnll price
will be 75 cents per pound
and $1.4!) for two pounds.
Retail coffee prices vary
with the quality of coffee.
Martins - IUPIV- Henry Louis
Mcuret, 32, of nearby Culver,
wns killed nt 8:05 a.m. today
when his spray plane went
Into a steep bank, then crash
ed on the Bud Miller ranch
Just north of the Crooked
river nnd enst of U.S. highway
07, about 20 miles south of
Madras,
11 H IKW.UVMW
r0F ALL Hkim$
.
II X J
11.11 H,L
FRIENDSHIP? Chanting slogans and carrying placards
printed In English, pro-Castro demonstrators marched across
the street from U.N. headquarters in New York Monday.
The demonstrators, about 100 in number, timed their ap
pearance to coincide with Cuba's appearance before the
U.N. Security Council to charge the U.S. with "economic
aggression." UPI Telcphoto)
Cities Make Pitch
For Share of Taxes
Salcm-UPII-The 200 cities of
Oregon made a pitch Monday
afternoon for a chunk of the
state's income tax dollar.
Springfield Mayor Edward
Harms Jr. made the presenta
tion here for the League of
Oregon Cities before the Leg
islative Interim Committee on
Taxation.
Asks Considoralion
The league suggested the
state give "serious considera
tion" to allocation of state in-
Carole Tregoff
Forcibly Jailed
Los Angeles - IUPD - Carole
Tregoff, handcuffed and sob
bing hysterically, was forc
ibly Jailed today after slap
ping a woman deputy who In
vcsligatcd why she failed to
appear for'her murder reUial
with Dr. Bernard Finch...,
; Superior Judge Leroy Daw
son issued .. bench warrant for
Miss Trcgoff's arrest because
she did not show up for to
day's trial session, and an
examination by doctors failed
Immediately to substantiate a
claim she was suffering from
hives.
Deputy Gabriclle Johnson
accompanied a doctor to the
Tregoff home and said she
tried to plead with Miss Treg
off to return to jail.
"She slapped me In the
face and said she wasn't go
ing to," the officer said. She
said Carole later punched her
in the stomach when the wom
an deputy refused to let her
enter the bathroom alone.
The admitted paramour of
the West Covina, Calif., sur
geon had been free on $25,000
bail since the end of the first
trial, although Finch was de
nied freedom.
Bulletins
Newport Beach, Calif. (ITU
Ten men were killed today
when two U.S. Navy de
stroyers collided in dense
fog off the Southern Cali
fornia coast, ih Navy re
ported. The daath list was revised
upwards after at least one
of the injured died and an
additional body ' was dis
covered. The new figures,
which included at least
eight injured, were an
nounced by the Navy at a
press conference.
Saligilter, Germany (UPIt
Fire in a lower Saxony coal
mine killed 21 miners today
and trapped at least 23 oth
ers in the main shaft 1,200
feet underground.
Eugene - IUPD - University
of Oregon graduate student,
Edwin L. Palmer, his wife
Marcin, nnd their two chil
dren, Pattl Jo, 3Va, and Linda
Sue, 2 months, escaped un
harmed from their flaming
apartment in the Columbia
street university housing proj
ect early today.
WEATHER
PORRCAST: Continued fair ant.
hot throiiRh Wednesday, A few
lute Afternoon nnd evening
tluinderrttornift over mountains
antilh and east. Low tonight
61, high tomorrow 95-100.
Temp,
lllKheat Venterday Oil
Lowest this Morning 61
Our Skies Tonight
Rnmet today 7:44 p.m.
Snnrlne tomorrow .... 4:53 a.m.
MnonrWv tomorrow-.. 2:34 a.m.
New Moon July 33
PKOMINKNT UTAH
Antnres. due south ,. 8:46 p.m.
VI HI HI, P PLANET 8
Saturn, due south .11:20 p.m.
Jupiter, between Saturn and
Antart,
Mars, rlsei 12:56 a.m.
!...' l.Kiair
XSS10H
V vi
t , 'rr
come tax revenue to cities on
a population basis, plus sharing
01 insurance Dremium taxes
collected by the state.
Mayor John ' W. Snider.
Medford, said the league has
no objection to the "state
changing the debt base of
cities from 60 rjcr cent nf
assessed valuation to true cash
value m a proposed bill. But
the league cautinnpH nnv ari.
justment of the statutory per
centase limitation. nn th
amount of indebtedness that
can be outstanding at any one
time.
Snider, who is Dresidcnt of
the league, said the group has
no oiuciai position as to
whether inventorics-or per
sonal property in general
should be exempted from the
property tax.
.Although the league did not
suggest a specific formula.
Harms said ntntji i npnmi lavM
I could be shared by giving
either a definite. percentage of
not collections or "a-llat per
capita grant similar to that in
New York.
League Setlu Hike
The league earlier n-
nounced it seeks a hike from
10 to 15 per cent in the cities'
share of state liquor profits.
This alone would provide
cities with another $900,000.
Harms said the cost of city
government in Oregon gained
332 per cent in the 15-vear
period from 1942 to 1957.
Costs are on the rise and many
cities now face serious finan
cial problems, he said.
$900 Missing in
Drug Store Burglary
Burglars broke open a safe
at Hudson's Pharmacy, 613
East Main St., late Sunday
night or early Monday morn
ing and took an estimated
$900 in cash.
Left at the scene of the
crime were the tools used to
break open the safe, and po
lice suspect they are the same
tools taken in a burglary of
the Ashland Lumber company
the same night.
Burglars took only money
although there were checks
and narcotics valued about
$1,000 in the safe.
Police said entry to the
pharmacy was gained by
breaking open an air vent on
the roof.
Mrs. Todd Says Altercation Story 'Inaccurate
Gives Her Version of What Happened in Scuffle
Editor's note: Mrs. Ann
Todd of Eagle Point has de
clared that a story concern
ing her. which -appeared in
the Mail Tribune July 12, is
"grossly inaccurate and ex
aggerated," and has asked
the Mail Tribune to pub
lish her version of the
events as described in the
story.
The Mall Tribune is glad
to do so, and below prints
pertinent portions of a state
m e n t prepared by Mrs.
Todd. The story dealt with
an altercation between Mrs.
Todd and George (Dad) Put
man of Eagle Point.
In printing Mrs. Todd's
statement, the Mail Tribune
is not acknowledging any
inaccuracy of the earlier
story, and has reason lo be
lieve it can be substantiated
by a number of witnesses.
Mrs, Todd's statement, in
major part, follows)
"As U. S. Ambassador
Lodge told the U.N. last week
that it wns time to set the
record straight concerning
Russia' s malicious gossip,
slnndcr and libel against the
United States, so I request a
V
Russia, Poland
Abstain From
Council Voting
U. S., Reds Exchange
'Hands Off Waminqi
United Nations, N.Y. - IUPD -
The Security Council, with
Russia and Poland abstaining,
voted today to shelve United
Nations debate on Cuba's
dispute with the United
States pending action by the
Organization of American
States.
The vote followed a sharp
exchange of "hands off
warnings by the United States
and the Soviet Union.
Soviet Ambassador Arka-
day A. Sobolev warned:
Don't touch Cuba" and said
Russia would use its full mili
tary might for the Cubans if
Cuba asked for it.
U.S. Ambassador Henry Ca
bot Lodge replied: "Don't
touch us. Don't touch those
with whom we are allied."
Russia sought unsuccessful
ly to delete from an Argen-
tine- Ecuadorean resolution
any reference to the O.A.S. or
its efforts to handle the threat
of Soviet interference as well
as the Cuban dispute with
the United States.
Tunisia abstained as the
council voted down a Soviet
amendment to this effect, 8-2.
Kussia and Poland offered the
only ayes.
Lodge said the United
States and its hemispheric al
lies would not be deterred in
their efforts to prevent estab
lishment of a regime dominat
ed by international Commu
nism. Replying to Sobolev's
charge that the United States
held Latin America as vassal
countries. Lodge said, "No
country on earth has a worse
record with regard to small
countries than the Soviet
Union."
He cited oppression by Rus
sia of the Uzbecks and other
minorities, its occupation of
Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania.
Poland, Czechoslovakia, Bul
garia and other satellites and
the Soviet occupation , of
Hungary. ... .
: He accused Russia of "shed
ding " crocodile tears"' over
Cuba and said, "Mr. Sobolev.
you and the government you
represent do not come into
court with clean hands.'
Damage Suit Case
Continues Today
Testimony in the $431,000
damage suit against Kline
Logging company, Medford, is
expected to conclude late this
afternoon, according to court
observers.
Raymond Bowles, tree fall-
er with Carol O. HillesUd,
who brought the suit, con
cluded his testimony this
morning. It was largely a
repetition of his testimony
Friday afternoon. " ,
Much of this morning's tes
timony was from Harold Mon
roe, logging company foreman
at the time of the accident
which injured Hillestad.
He testified as to how the
logging operation was set up.
He said he took in-urance
papers to Hillestad In the hos
pital to sign. He also testified
as to whether he had observed
the condition of Hillestad's
eyes when he visited him in
the hospital.
Other testimony from Mon
roe included his observation
of Hillestad's injuries imme
diately after the accident in
the woods, and what he had
told an insurance adjustor.
correction of your printed
story, which was published,
solely on the word of an un
identified 'Eagle Point resi
dent' who purportedly got the
story from Mrs. Short and Mr.
Putnam, but without asking
mc my version of what hap
pened. -
"Your story was that 'Put
man had walked downtown
to pick up his mall and visit
friends and was standing un
der a shade tree in front of
Brown's market talking to
Mrs. Short when Mrs. Todd
walked up behind Putman.'
The truth is that I was re
turning from the Post Office
to my parked car. Putman
nnd Mrs. Short were standing
on the path In the shade of
a tree half way between the
Engle Point Irrlgntlon Dis
trict office nnd Brown's mnr
ket. Mrs. Short reached her
foot forword nnd pressed It
over Mr. Putmnn's, so I Jok
ingly said, 'HI, Mr. Putman,
talking nbout me?' (An ex
change of words discussed in
Mrs. Todd's statement is omit
ted here.) He raised his cane
over my head.
"I am not a coward, but I
am only five feet tall; scarce-
OUT OF SICKBED Fidel Castro left his sickbed Monday
to warn "counterrevolutionaries" not to make an attempt to ,
use churches as their trenches in thptr maphlnoitnn aaain ;
his government. Castro, ill with pneumonia, made a 3-hour ,
TV appearance on the second consecutive day of fighting
between revolutionists and Roman Catholics outside church
es. (UPI Telephoto)
Castro Accuses U.S.
Of Bribing Defectors
Havana-OIPD - Fidel Castro
got up from his sick bed Mon
day night to denounce Roman
Catholic priests as "fascists"
and accuse the U. S. Depart
ment of bribing his old friends
to defect.
The young premier, stung
by public outcries against his
growing attachments to Com
munist countries, derided
those false Christians who
go to church to conspire in
stead of to pray."
Court To Open-
Bids For Awnings
The county court will open
bids on awnings for the court
house tomorrow morning.
One of the main items of
business at tomorrow's regu
lar court session, will be se
lection' of members of a home
rule committee. According to
state law, me county court
appoints four members, the
legislative delegation appoints
four and a ninth is appointed
by the committee itself.
Th r,mlv rnnrt will l.o
consider a request from the
planning commission to
amend the county subdivision
ordinance to require removal
of pear trees on subdivided
land. The district attorney's
office is expected to submit a
legal opinion on the proposal.
It will also go over public
notices and the recording for
vacation of a 15-foot strip
on the Foothills rd.
The county court also will
consider vacation of an alley
In the Oak Grove area.
It will consider a release of
undertaking on the Pleasant
Creek rd. This would make
the access rd. into bureau of
land management timber part
of the county road system.
Medford Police Check
Report of Bomb
Medford police searched the
area around Mary's Casa, 537
Mary St., Monday evening af
ter receiving a telephone call
that a bomb was planted
there in bushes and due to ex
plode at 8:30 p.m.
Police failed to find any
bomb, and suspect that the
false bomb report was done as
a practical joke.
ly weigh 100 pounds, and
today is my 50th birthday. I
am not physically strong. Mr.
Putman is a large man, at
least six feet tall, and has
often boasted to me of his
grent physical strength.
"Your printed story is that
I 'walked up behind Mr. Put
man, exchanged sharp words
with him, and as he picked
up his cane to leave, that the
diminutive Mrs. Todd, wit
nesses reported, grabbed it,
and he lost his balance.' I
abhor violence. (Perhaps It is
Instinctive self - preservation
because of my small stature.)
Your statement is not true.
"You stated, 'he then slap
ped Mrs. Todd, who kept
struggling for the cane, the
reports added.' Had Mr. Put
mnn slnpped me, he could
have blinded me by brenklng
my glnsscs. He did not slnp
me. He grabbed mc by the
hnlr and yanked my head . . ,
while he raised his cane with
the other hand .... I grabbed
for the cane, and managed to
hold on to it, meanwhile Mr.
Putman began to twist the
cane and my lame right arm.
I called for help. Fortunately
for me, I was able to hold on
1
He called on "good Chris-
tians" to chase out of their '
churches "those who want to
make the temple trenches"
against his revolutionary re
gime. He charged that two
Roman Catholic anti-Corn-:
munist demonstrations in the
past two days were coordinat
ed by the State Department.
3-Hour Harangue
The bearded revolutionary ;
leader interrupted a 10-day .
convalescence from pneu
monia to deliver an emotion
packed, three-hour harangue "
on television.
He claimed to have evi
dence showing that one rank
ing Cuban ambassador had
been offered large sums of
money and other Cubans had '
been promised protection for '
tneir property against any
future U.S. invasion provided '
UTey "agreed to flee the island
for propaganda purposes.
The speech followed the '
second major: anti-Communist v
demonstration sby Roman:
Catholics in Havana in as :
many days a rally broken
UP onJv by the warning shot ,
I and rou8h arm tactics of rev-
J olotlonarjr militia. ...
"'"f" VP "nks
The entire family of New ,
Haven, Conn., businessman
Irving B. Price was caught
up by the melee in an inci
dent that was expected to .
bring a strong protest from
the U.S. Embassy. '
Mrs. Bertha Price and her .
two sons, Jeffrey, 18, and ,
Richard, 14, both of whom ;
were born in Cuba, were driv- .
ing past the suburban Jesus
de Miramar church when the
mob descended on them.
All three were hauled from
the car and pummeled by the
mob which broke the glass in
their car and dented the body.
Mrs. Price warned Richard to l
run and he escaped to the
U.S. Embassy with minor '
hurts, arriving almost hys
terical. Jeffrey was beaten and suf- f
fuered head injuries before '
four mob members took him
to headquarters of the army
intelligence and announced
they had a "Yankee prisoner."
They were particularly in
flamed because Jeffrey had a
camera with him.
Mrs. Price, who was bruised
and shaken, escaped. Cuban
authorities took her on a tour
of Cuban jails until they
found Jeffrey.
to the cane ,
"Your story says 'the fight
was short, the Eagle Point
resident said, but drew a large
crowd.' The truth is that there
was no crowd; but rather, the
only witness to the perform
ance was a small, elderly,
non resident passerby. He
tried to stop the assault on me
by twice telling Mr. Putman
to 'leave her alone,' but Mrs.
Short, twice, told him to keep
out of it and to mind his own
business, vlth Mr. Putman
repeating the words after her.
It was after thnt, that Mrs.
Short took Mr. Putman by the '
arm and said 'Let's go, Dad.'
"As you know from Mr.
Paul Conrnd, he personally
contacted the gentleman who
tried to stop the beating, and
he verified my version of '
what really happened.
"Your story continues that
'Mrs. Todd went Into Brown's
market,' which I didn't. 'But
before doing so, it was report
ed, she asked a truck driver
making a delivery at the store
to serve as witness.' The
truth: I didn't talk to any
truck driver, nor ask him, nor
anybody else, to witness for
me ..."