4 r r - 'cmccumon . Patty ever tistrisetlea far Cae - WEATHER- L . TOr today mmA 316.677" luunjdlty wMtMuaced; Mom. dy clear. Max. Temp. 75. Hia.' S8, wind north, river " Vs Average SftB Mt sela Asttt Bans ef .OmUni, BnGHTIETH TEAR Salea, Oresoa, Wednesday Uoralag, Jnly 9, 1930 WW Explore S InNortMand DISPUTE OVER SetsWomerfs 'Chute Record Epitome of All That Americans Strive For Some People Say MYITES i 1! t ' . - -1; - ' T-' . - . . ' , - - - raw: iifSn KILL ELECTION ACTION "Woman" Witnesat Grand Jury Hearing: Looksf Much Like Man St. Louis Reporter Says He Is Willing to Tel! What He Knows - CHICAGO, July 8..-- AP) . A. myiterlons witness, ' dressed as a woman, bqt with the physique of a man, today appeared before the lOTestiratinr eommitee lnTestlaat lng- the assassination of Alfred Llngie, Tribune crime reporter. ' This strange person, heavily relied and wearing, goggles, lent drama to the Inquiry but pro jded bo public information to ward aolatlon of the ease. Appearing " unexpectedly, the newcomer was taken Into the of fices of Charles F. Rathbun,. Tri bune attorney and special, assist ant state's attorney. After more than an hour of conference the Tailed person . was taken to the detective bureau. : Photographs taken .of the wit ness as she left the Investigator s office disclosed unusual features indicating the veiled person might be a man, disguised to frustrate recognition. The photograph re vealed her as of unusually large stature for a woman, the photo grapher said. A reporter for the Times who saw the witness transferred from the investigators' office to the de tective bureau, said he found In the police car afterward a card engraved with the name "Ierne Kelly", Minneapolis. Meantime, Louis, Clement!, re puted underworld character who police said was wanted for ques tioning about the Ungle ease, walked Into the detective bureau and gave himself up to Chief 1 of Detectives John Norton. He was held for investigation. The grand Jury investigation of the Llngle slaying went forward with the opening of an inquiry by the Chicago Church federation, which launched a secret investi gation of its own. " A dispatch from St. Louis said Harry Brnndldge, reporter for a St. Louis newspaper, who wrote several articles charging "unpro fessional conduct on unnamed Chicago newspapermen, was will ing to go before the grand Jury, but saw no reason for a prelim inary conference with the state's attorney. Brnndldge, basing his articles on the alleged alliance of Llngle -with certain gangsters and officials, contended other Chicago newspapermen were "racketeers." Pier Collapses, Only Three Hurt PENNS GROVE, N. J., July (AP) Three persons were in- ured when the Wilson Line pier ere collapsed late today. Less than 20 persons were' on the pier at the time and only three were thrown .into the river. They were quickly rescued. OPPOSES MelfARY MEDFORD. Ore.,' July t r (AP) L. A. Banks, Medford, Oregon, and Riverside, Calif., or ehardlst and newspaper publish er, at a meeting here tonight was nominated - as an independent candidate for the- United States senate, to oppose Charles L- Mc Nary tn the November election. Banka accepted the nomination and read a prepared address in which he attacked the farm re lief bill as "class legislation de signed to build up bureaucratic domination." He charged agri cultural colleges were "hotbeds of political intrigue." Banks said he stood for "free dom of the press and constitu tional rights." KNOCKOUT SCORED PORTLAND, Ore., July 8 (AP) Fuldo Bardelli, Burke, Idaho, miner,- knocked out Roy Jacks, Kansas City Southpaw, in the fourth round of a scheduled 10 round main event fight here tonight. Bardelli, formerly known as young Firpo, dropped the Kansas City fighter with a left and two solid rights 4 to the" midsection. Jacks went down, on - his .hands and knees, unable to move, while the referee tolled the count. LUKESH INVESTIGATES EUGENE, Ore., Jnjy. S (AP) Colonel G. B. Lukesh, federal district engineer, said today thai' within SO -days he, Will begin preliminary Croatia tton to determine the feaetbil ity of m survey the WUlam-' ette river tetwem Eugene and ; Portland. " ': Congresa recently ratborixedU Che ezpenditare 9t fi,ooo cm . the peoJecCii-,; JULY 23 DEFINITE PORTLAND, Ore July S (AP) Phil Metschaiu state cen tral committee chairman, said to day L the' republican state central eommUtee would meet I Jury 28 definitely, bnt he was viable to name the place. ' . Mstschan said returns from gjpiiejfs - If Miss Lovlae Boyd, heiress, big game hmnter and explorer, and San. Francisco society woman. who has again harked to the call of the wild. Miss Boyd will leave for the rugged moun tains of northern Sweden and Finland. E Question Is, Did Inspector Charge Public For At- i tending Grange' One rood letter calls for anoth er. Now comes Rodney W. JRden, editor of the Woodburn Inde pendent, and makes full answer to the open letter addressed to him Monday by R. H. van Trump, county fruit Inspector. Van Trump, in his letter, took exception to a news story on the meeting of Salem grange, publish ed in the Woodburn Independent, which Van Trump declared made slanderous charges against him. The inspector virtually challenged the 'Independent editor to prove specific statements. Back comes Mr. Alden, with acceptance of Van Trump's challenge to a hear ing on the matter. Says Van Tramp Dodged the Issue Here is Alden's letter a eopy of which was mailed to the States man, Inasmuch as Van Trump's (Turn to page 2, col. 1) , jv- ; ffc. y " m thump n 55 SAYS L. A. Banks 'Nominated" Bardelli Defeats Jacks. River Survey Proposed G. 0. P. Meeting Is Set about half of the committeemen, to whom be had written to In quire where they wanted to meet. Indicated they favored Portland. Metschan said he would wait un til all counties had been heard from before he selected the meet ing place. . Pendleton, LaGrande, Hood River and other eastern cities lo cated centrally in the state would be given consideration, he said. : SALEM MEN SPEAKERS PORTLAND, Ore., July 8 (AP) "The Oregon Trail" will be the subject of an address to be given tomorrow by Governor Nor blad at Champoeg at the cele bration' of the tOth anniversary of the arrival of the ship Laus anne with missionaries to the Oregon country. v Other speakers will Include R. J. Hendricks. Salem, Dr. W." W. Toungson, Portland; R. A. Booth, Eugene; Carl O. Doney, president tot 'Willamette univee slty. DREDGING TO START PORTLAND, Ore., July 8 (AP) Robert E. Hlckson, assist ant engineer in- charge of Co lumbia river ebannel operations, announced today overdepth dredging will begin In the river next week. : While the dredging will be done with funds already at hand. It will be done In such a manner It will m Into the new federal project of a SB foot channel, 800 feet wide, from Portland to me sea: . . . - 2 - ? ' Next fall, Hlckson said, eerer al spur dykes will be constructed la the river. , -; . .; ;.. . : BANDS TO COMPETB'-;' 1 - PORTLAND, Ore nly (AP) Baada - from Orecoa and Washington - were cather ins; la Portland today for ' a. three-day contest to select the foremost aouUenr bead In the Pacific BMawest.V-'i. 4i More than BO bands, tnclud- , Ins; 20 novelty bands, have nbeea entered ta the contest - Physical Director . Choice f Left up in the Air After r Session " Deadlock Seen as Heads of System Decline to -. Recommend Whether or not Eugene L. tfLuke" Gill, director of physical education at the Salem high school the past year and on the staff for the ; past three . years, will - be ' on the. high school faculty here -this fall Is still unknown', despite the fact that the school board dis cussed Xhe matter for a full 45 mlnutes at its regular session last night. . When the board had finished its discussion, the matter was . laid right back where It has been lay- ins for some weeks on-tha taMes- fc4taer teachers wer rehired- May is, since when the Gill case has been hanging fire. At that .time Superintendent. Hug was .not will ing to recommend that' Gill be rehired because Principal Fred Wolf of the high school had given eraT report that Gill's work was unsatisfactory. . Board Not Agreed O .Merits of Case Subsequently, it Is known al though the matter was not brought up last night, Wolf hand ed the superintendent an unsigned report listing his objections to re taining Gill. Mrs Roy Keene, new member of the board, opened the more or leas desultory argument In the matter last night, when she asked that the situation be explained to her," and in turn laid before the board what she had heard of the ease from Gill, a friend of the Keenes. ' Outcome of the argument seems to be a deadlock, with Superin tendent Hug . and Wolf refusing to recommend GDI's re-election, (Turn to page 2, cot;4) Struck Wife With -Butcher Knife, is Report to the Local Police - R. L. McDowell, one of the pro orletors of the McDowell meat market on South Commercial street, was brought to the city Jan Tuesday night after an al leged brawl with his wife In which he was said to have slashed her with 'a butcher knife. He was booked on a felony charge and dted to sppear in Justice court today. Police who arrested McDowell said he had cut her twice with a sharp knife.' She was not serious ly injured, they said. McDowell was arrested at the home at 18th and Market about 11 o'clock last night after a per son unknown to police had noti fied them of the act.- When he arrived at the police station he had nothing to say. and went peacefully into his cell. Officers said he was Intoxicated at the time. Members of the McDowell fam ily said Tuesday night that the brother had suffered mental dif ficulties since returning from France at the close of the war, and that he was Co be taken to the veterans hospital-in Portland for treatment In three weeks. Whether or not the couple had previously had domestic difneu- tles could not be learned from members of the family. ARE CBL11ED WASHINGTON. D. C, July (AP) All veterans agencies of the government today were brought under single control by President Hoover with Briga dier' General Frank T. Hines, for several years head of the veter ans bureau, as administrator. Mr. Hoover In announcing he had prepared the executive order to carry Into effect provisions e the bill passed by congress at his request, said the new establish meat "becomes one of the most Important function in the govern ment' The issuance of the pres ident's order brings the veterans bureau, an independent establish ment, the pensions bureau from the department of interior and the soldiers home from the war department all under, the veter ans administration. " ; 1 . The consolidated budgets o these three services for this fis cal year amount to approximately 8800.100.eee. The president ex peeta important, economics ta he effected through : the consolida tion. DISMISSAL ASKED LIVINGSTON. MonL. July t. (AP) Dismissal " of a divorce suit brought by Mrs. Mildred Hill against" Walter Hill, ; son of . the late James J. Hill, railroad build er; was sought ta an action, filed la district court here , today , by counsel for the couple. raciES t i. fx Mrs. Rita Shoemaker ef Chicago, leaned from an. airplane, above the clouds in nn effort to estab lish a. new altitude record for parachute Jumps by women. The present record Is 14,300 feet, held by a French giii. Ac' cording to the altimeter, Mrs. Shoemaker was between 15800 and 16,000 feet when she Jump ed. ; Fifty Planes to Appear at Airport Early Next Month, Decided Fifty airplanes, principally army and navy planes, will appear at the municipal airport some time early next month under aus pices of Capital Post No. 8, Amer can Legion if plans advanced at the meeting Tuesday night ma terialise. The air derby has received con siderable publicity during the past few days, especially in Port land. According to report the squadron of 60 planes started by the national aeronautical a&socla tlon, will appear in most of the airports in the northwest. Cities included In its itinerary are Med ford, Eugene, Silverton, Salem, Portland, and a number of cities In Washington..- These cities will be formed into - aa association some time before July 28 and will be hosts to appearances of the pi lots and their planes. Brasier Small, Jack Elliott, Douglas McKay, King Bartlett, and H. G. Maison were appointed s a committee to investigate the proposition. One of their first acts Small, the chairman, stated. would be to petition the city coun cil for permission to use the mu nlclpal airport for the derby. Delegates Chosen For Baker Meet Delegates to the state Ameri can Legion convention August 14, 15 and 18 ehosen Tuesday night were O. E. Palmateer, Carl Ga brielson, Douglas McKay, William Bliven, L. A. Hamilton, Brazier Small, Vic MeKensle, H. O. Mai son, Bay Abst. R. H. Baasett, and Mr. Welch. Alternates are, Her man Brown. Lloyd Bigdon, Irl McSherry, Paul Burrls, Oliver Huston, M. Pilklngton, Newell Williams, Jack Brady, Reynolds Ohmart, C. K. Logan and Louis Campbell. The legion voted to discontinue its. meetings during the summer, and no meetings will be held until early, In .September. L M HEAD OF ELKS ATLANTIC. N. J.. July 8 (AP) Lawrence H. Rupp.of Al- lentown. Pa., who was ejected rrand . exalted ruler of the ben evolent and protective order of Elks, today told the Ctth annual reunion of the grand lodge tne world needs, not kings and dicta tors, but kind hearts. "In our haste to pursue tne material things of life" said Mr. Rupd. "we are neglecting tne things that are more Important. Anomalous as it may seem, In a democratic land, we are losing our liberties. We are hedged about with laws and limitations. Other officers elected by, the grand lodge were: grand esteem ed leading knight, Martin J. cun nlngham. of D anbury, Conn., grand esteemed ioyai anignt. Leonard R. Ellis, Hot Springs, Arkt grand esteemed lecturing knight. Josenh T. Farrar, Provo Utah; grand secretary, J. jcagar Master. Charlerol, Pa., grand treasurer, Lloyd Maxwell, Marah alltown, Iowa; grand tyler, I P, McCreadr. Miami. Fla.. grand ln- nerguard. John V, Holliday. Washington, IadV for member of the board of trustees, James b, Richardson, Cincinnati. Haideman Fails To Set Record JACKSONVILLE, Fla., July 8 (API Their dream, of setting a, ttew ; world's noVrefuellins; en durance ' flight record Came to temporary grief for George -Hai deman and Stuart cnaawica, here today when they were forced to land their monoplane wThlr teen" after' havtosT - been -aloft onlv 18 hours and 42 minutes. Unusually heavy oil consump tion was the immediate cause oi the halt. ' -1 - - Minn lin DERBY LOCALLY H SI Debate on Disarmament is Started, Then Row Is Resumed Some of Documents Already Sent to Committee, Others Withheld By FRANCIS M. STEPHENSON WASHINGTON, July 8 (AP) Ratification of the London nav al treaty was urged before the senate In the opening debate to day by Senator Swanson, Virginia, ranking democrat on the foreign relations and naval committees, but the treaty was soon submerg ed In a Quarrel over the right of the senate to documents relating to the London parley. Before filled galleries and se cretary Stlmson, the head of the American delegation, Senator Swanson put the case of the trea ty proponents with the plea ratifi cation was in the best interests of the United States both ' from a "selfish, military standpoint,' and from "a higher and nobler pur pose." As the Virginian concluded his two-hour address the senate re verted to its dispute over the Me Kellar resolution requesting Pre sident Hoover to give the senate all papers and documents relating to the pact. Chairman Borah of the foreign relations committee who la in Charge of the treaty announced he was willing to accept the resolu tion but after three hours debate led by Senators Johnson, republi can, California, and McKee, demo crat, Tennessee, the senate ad journed without reaching a vote. Borah suggested an amend ment to the McKellar resolution (Turn to page 2. col. 1) Nothing Below . Class B Is Effort Proposed at Meeting Here Nothing lower than B grade milk for bottling purposes in Sa lem is the desire of the milk pro ducers association' which met at the Marion hotel Tuesday even ing. The new city milk ordinance which is to go into effect July 17 provides for C and D grade milk to be brought to the distributing plant for pasteurising. This can then be sold as grade 8 pasteuris-ed.- The producers however believe that all milk should meet the standard for Grade B raw and the members of the association pres ent went on record as favoring a united movement to bring all milk brought to Salem for bottling- pur poses to this standard. New Ordinance in Effect July 17 The new milk ordinance will go into effect July 17 but producers will be allowed 80 days in which to comply with it. The produ cers did not express the wish that the ordinance be changed but rather that the association should strive to deliver no milk below the B grade. The producers were seemingly pleased with the agreement reach ed on. Monday with the distribu tors whereby a price of 2.I0 per hundred will be received for B grade four per cent milk. STERLING, Colo., July 8 - (AP) Land taxation at a point where farmers pay more than 1900,000,000 annually was refer red to as an "important factor" in the agricultural situation by Secretary, of Agriculture Hyde who today addressed a meeting of Colorado, and Nebraska bankers and farmers. "The surplus with which farm thinking must busy Itself said the secretary is that part of the fcrop which the market, domestic or foreign, can absorb without disastrously breaking the price.' Hyde said the American farm er should obt be compelled to meet the fierce competition of cheap labor and low standard ef uving in other countries: Committees of ; School Board Are Announced .'Standing committees for tne new. school year were named at the school last-' night by . Chairman- H.'H. Olinrer as follows: - Finances-Mark McCanister aid E. L. Welder. ' i . i ; Buildings and repairs McCal lister and, Mrs. Boy Keenw. '- Supplies -Frank Keer and Mrs. Keene.. . Insurance rWelder and Neer Employment Welder, Ne e r and Mrs. Keeae. -. H ILK PRODUCERS TIXIMJ BI1ED FOR FARM'S WOES J??vv,v ..v'4vv :AiV a jr - " !vs ' , Ty Jotm D. Rockefeller, Sr., who was seems to enjoy bis birthdays though only nine more will see him reaching the century mark. This is one of but a few studio por traits taken of him in the last 40 years it is claimed to be the only one. Birthday Greetings Sent Bu Former Foe 'Mother Jones, Who Colorado Mine War, Reaching 9 1 ; Time By LORENA mARBYTOWN, N. Y July 8. (AP) The years com JL pleted another victory today as John D. Rockefeller on his 91st birthday receive! a congratulatory message from his one-time bitter foe, "Mother- Jones, labor leader. Less than a score of those patient, invincible years have passed since "Mother" Jones went to jail after her denuncia tion, or tne Rockefellers a de- nunelation delivered in the white heat of her wrath that flamed during the Colorado mine wars. But "Mother" Jones is 100 years old now, peacefully living out what Is left of life for her in a quiet, secluded country home In Maryland. And John D. Rockefeller is el, a mua ana benevolent old gen tleman, who dispenses millions of dollars and hundreds of bright new dimes as he lives on toward the century mark. So today from Silver Springs, Md., to Pocantico Hills, N. Y., came the following message that only time could make possible: "Congratulations on the arriv al of your 91st birthday. Thank God, we have some men in the world as good as you. We never needed them as much as we do today. Most sincere wishes that you may be blessed with many more." The Rockefellers made the first move in the peace that was final ly concluded today. On her 100th birthday a. few weeks age, "Moth er" Jones received a telegram of felicitation from John D., Jr., and In expressing- her appreciation for the message, - she revealed that once, several years ago he had in vited her to his home for dinner. "Tour loyalty to your ideals. your fearless aaaerenee to your duty as you have seen it is an in spiration to all who have known you," read the message from the son of her old time enemy. And after she 'had read It, "Mother" Jones said, "He's a darned good sport. Fve licked him many times, but now we've made peace." His wire from "Mother" Jones and the compliment paid him in a radio speech last night by the Prince of Wales, who said he hoped England -would produce -a philanthropist like him, were the high spots of John D. Rockefel ler's 91st birthday. Law Knows Its Limits; Doesn't Regulate Bees ' TAKIMA. . Wash, July S -(AP) Ellis Bounts learned to day that - there is no state law hero to support a damage suit be wanted to tile against neighbor whose bees kiUed "a- team ef horses on his ranch and caused one; man to be confined to bed with stings.-" i 1 The prosecutors staff searched in vain through shelves of tomes for a statute covering" a ease of bees on the warpath. . EXECUTION WEAR ' ; . - DENVER. July -s-(AP)- In dications tonight were that Ralph Fleagle will hang at Canon City Thursday. -r -; 01 years old yesterday, and still Fought Rockefeller in Felicitates Him on Alters Viewpoint A. HICKOK ran hit SHANGHAI, July 8. (AP) Harassed by increasing banditry ravaging Its southern provinces, the nationalist government struck hard today to turn back invading rebel armies from the north. A new nationalist offensive was hurled against the northerners who recently captured Tstnan and swept on southward and eastward in a great arc reaching from. Ten chow to Welhsien. Hostilities began near Welh sien, the government troops striv ing to recapture Tsinan and drive the rebels hack across the Yellow river. Reinforced by troops from the front in eastern Honan, the na- Uonallsts were reported endeavor ing to turn the left wing of the huge northern battle line across Honan and Shantung provinces, after taUing to dent the rebel de fenses in the center of Kaiteng, Honan. Famous Infanf Name Lindy,Jr NEW YORK, July 8 (AP) A statement was Issued tonight at the home of Ambassador and Mrs. Dwight W. Morrow In Englewood, N. T., that Colonel and Mrs. Charles Augustus Lindbergh have named their son, born June 22 at the - ambassador's home, Charles Augustus Lindbergh, Jr. REBELS HARD BLOW Mernidz Starts Crossing Of South Atlantic Ocean , NATAL, BrasiL July 8 (AP) Roaring down the lengta of Lake Bomflm in the seaplane with Which he made the first westward South AtlanUe mail -flight, Jean Memos, crack French airmail pUot. took off this afternoon-fox a non-step flight back to'Af rica. - Eighteen - hundred Jalles -of ocean separated him from his ob jective Dakar, In French eoua- torial Africa. The South Atlantic never has been - successfully erossed from west to east. ':. The attempt, primarily Is In tended to show the feasibility of regular airmail service across the South Atlantic i- - -J Memos, who got away at 4:22 p. m., hoped to better the time of hia first fUghU On' May 12-18. Confession is Written ta. Newspaper; Chance to Repay is Asked Checkup Reveals Story Is Correct; Crime Was , Not Suspected FRESNO, Cal., July 8 (AP) --Conscience, mighty mover ef men, has brought to light after' IS years a brief confession -af ; boyhood murder In Fresno, unSw' pected during all these years. ; --.The Fresno Republican ree4i ed typewritten "letter from aa Diego, signed ,"A Repentant" in which the crime is told and tn which the signer pleads with the newspaper to locate his victlatfe' relaUves in order he may find' them, confess directly to them and . make amends. t The letter follows: "Fresno Republican, Frceao, Cal., . "About SO or S 5 years a to I poisoned my childhood playmate . in Fresno, a little boy by the name of Conrad Bernhard. Be was supposed to have died f rear, natural causes and no one ever suspected the cause of his death. He lived on L street on a south east corner at either Merced er Roulumne streets, I cannot -member which. I think the naase of his father was Emll F. Beros hard, with -dark whiskers aai glasses as I remember him. 1 mm not remember his mother, but I do remember a sister. -Wants Relative' Names Published "Will you please ., publish in your paper the name and addxse of any member of his family that I may locate them and personalty confess to my deed to them. I im compelled to sign this communi cation anonymously because it I did not the officers might inter fere before I could personally talk to some member of the family. I was a small child at the time tb'm happened. I will watch your su per for the information I hare re quested. I therefore slgn,aylt merely "A Repentant." A check by the Republican le vealed the facta to be peculiar exact. Conrad Bernhard died here Ap ril IS, 1895, at the age of 13 years. He was the son of Mr. and Mrs. Emll F. Bernhard, prominent here, and" lived with his parents at the corner of L and Roulussae streets. The Illness which resulted la his death was sudden and brief. The story as remembered by hie aunt, Mrs. Charles Griffith, (Fres no, is the boy had eaten heavily ef watermelon and shortly afterward had walked to town and back for a horse. At the end of the trip be U'l sick, had spasms for a day atd died In a convulsion on April IS. The death was given by Dr. A. J. Pedlar as due to perforation f tha bowels. i 8 45 FEET AFTER CRftSH Thrown 4 5 feet after hfs speed lng motorcycle had struck the car driven by Vestel A. Johnson, C North Chttrch'street, Q. 0. Hireck, a saUor visiting In Salem on fur lough, suffered injuries which la night caused him to be taken te. the Salem General hospital ta a aerlous condition. Officers who investigated tL accident said the speedometer en -the motorcycle had stuck at f miles per hour. A witness said Hirsch had passed him at a rate of at least 60 miles an hour jut before he struck the Johnson car at the intersection of 21st and -Mill. - The light car. driven by John son was turned completely around at the impact and Hirsch was thrown 45 feet from the scene of the collision, the investigative officer said. Injuries sustained by the sailor had not been learned at tha hos pital Tuesday night, but it was be lieved that his hip was hurt bad ly and that possible infernal la juries may, have resulted. - ' ha crossed from Saint Louis. Sen egal, in 20 hours and II minatee For hours he and his comrade today 1 sat ' ta their seaplane ea . Lake Bomfia and whistled. tes av wind which they had to bar te get the big seaplane' and Its 449 pound of air mail' eft tbe waVrr. -The plane and Its load welshed " nearly six tons, r -" -. - ''; - . .Three : dispatch.' boats of tt Aero-Postal company. : which te fnormal times sped across the . South Atlantic In relays with tins . . combination air and -ocean maJU, were stationed along his ten La from Nata to IJakar.-.: q- 'They are standing by to asaiaS . the fliers If trouble develops. Memos will communicate ay wireless with at least one of at all times.. . v n HURLED 4k