riTE MORNING. OREGOXIAX, FRIDAY, JUL.Y 23, 1919.
HEARINGS ON RATES
TO CLOSE ON SOUND
Announcement Made That All
Evidence Must Be in Monday.
CLASHES MARK TESTIMONY
Haling That Witnesses Must Be
Present In Person Causes Ex
tended Debate by Counsel.
i
Continued From First Page.) m
putting in evidence and euch timb as
may be required for cross-examination.
J. B. Campbell declared that Spokane
would require little time and could
just as well put in its case at Seattle.
O. C. Fulton, representing Astoria, said
that it would be just as well for the
Astoria case to follow that of the rail
roads, at Seattle, as it would probably
be considerably shortened by the fact
that the railroads are dealing with the
same matters.
Attorney J. N. Teal was optimistic in
the thought that direct testimony of
Portland might be completed by noon
today. W. P. LaRoche, city attorney,
was allotted two hours to present the
case of the dock commission, and will
have a like time for the port com
mission case. C. A. Hart of the law
firm of Carey & Kerr, directing the
conduct of the case for the railroad ad
ministration, eaid that he would have
two witnesses to introduce in the pres
ent sitting.
"It is a Portland case," he explained,
'and it is my desire to put on J. G.
Wood worth and one other witness here,
because their testimony is of especial
interest to Portland. I feel that cer
tain witnesses should be heard here."
Suggestion having been made that
the hearing might be continued at
Portland Monday and Tuesday, to. J
Wettrick, representing the Seattle
chamber of commerce and commercial
flub, said that if the hearing was con
tinued here over Tuesday he was airaid
Seattle would not have a chance to put
in all of the evidence in the case it
might desire.
Tentative Plan Made.
Examiner Thurtell announced that
" the hearing would proceed with the m-
tention of closing the hearing at port
- Iflnd Monday and resuming at Seattle
Tuesday. This is the present pro
gramme, but may be modified by the
commissioners.
Warren ton has been allotted Satur
day forenoon for the presentation of its
case, and it is anticipated it will be
completed in about two hours time, in
cluding cross-examination of witnesses
introduced.
With the completion of the testimony
"on direct evidence by John H. Lothrop,
exhibits in the case so far total 100.
Some of the matters brought into the
record were subjects of heated debate
between counsel for the rail road ad
ministration and Attorney J. N. Teal.
Mr. Teal declared, that the require
ment that witnesses of eminent au
thority appear in the flesh in order to
submit to cross-examination as to com
petency of their testimony, introduced
by the railroads for precisely the same
purpose as such evidence, is now sought
to be used for the public, raised objec
tions that he had never before encoun
tered with the interstate commerce
commission.
Ruling Tm Held Back.
The counsel had endeavored to in
troduce testimony of Julius Krutt
pchnitt. now chairman oi' the board
of the Southern Pacific company and
at that time in charge of operation
and traffic of both the Union and
Southern Pacific systems, in a case
heard at Salt Lake City, Utah. It had
been objected to by the attorneys for
the railroad administration on the
ground that there was no chance to
interrogate the wit mss under cross -
, examination. The testimony had been
printed in pamphlet form and was
given a number for identification, the
commission withholding its ruling as
to admissibility..
lOshihtt May Be Barred.
Continuation of the hearing of the
Tort land rate case before d i vis ion No.
:! of the interstate commerce commis
sion at the Multnomah count y court
house, yesterday morning, was charac
terized by an effort to obtain from
counsel an understanding as to division
of time allotted to the hearing.
John II. Lothrop resumed testimony
and offered as an exhibit excerpts from
testimony of Julius Knuttschnitt, in
charge of operating and construction
of the Union Pacific and Southern Pa
cific systems, mentioning a long list
of improvements made since 1901.
The railroad administration counsel
objected to the exhibit, and it was
given a number for identification, but
its admission was deferred pending
submission of complete record to op-
posing counsel.
S. J. Wettrick, attorney for the
transportation bureau of the Seattle
Chamber of Commerce and commercial
club, objected to the introduction of
testimony regarding the operating
costs of the Southern Pacific over the
Siskiyou mountains, and other com
panies with lines foreign to the ter
ritory under discussion. He insisted
that evidence should be confined to the
railroads over the Cascades. This
being the last exhibit of this character
concluded this phase of the evidence
and was admitted.
flatem Are Compared.
A table showing rates on canned
goods demonstrated that Seattle en
joys equal or lower rates than Port
land, to points in the Columbia river
basin, to destinations of like or greater
mileage. Prescott, Ayer Junction. Sago- I
more and Spokane were used. It was
also shown that the combination rail
and water rates from San Francisco
afford California shippers a better rate
to interior points relatively, than Port
land. The rate from San Francisco to
Seattle, Astoria and Portland by water
is the same.
Counsel Hart, of the railroad admin
istration, took up cross-examination of
J. H. Lothrop at the opening of the
afternoon session of the hearing. After
interrogating witness as to his quali
fications as a rate expert, the question
ing was directed to views as to rela
t ionship of rates.
differential In I rged.
Mr. Hart Po you hold that all rates
should he higher to Seattle than to
Portland?
Witness I think there should be a
differential.
Hart In all rates?
Witness Yes, sir.
Hart Do you subscribe to the theory
advanced by Mr. Ostrander that there
should be a differential on all grain
rates?
Witness -Yes, sir.
Hart Would not the Milwaukee be
justified in reductng cram rates to
compete for that traffic?
W itness Not for t he purpose of
meeting the Portland rate.
Hart Why not? Isn't that legitimate
compctit ion ?
Witness That is commercial compe
titlon.
Hart Po you not think that if the
railroads can move the tfafficas cheap
ly to Seattle as to Portland that they
should be allowed to o so?
W itness Yes, sir, if the railroads can
show the commission that the cost of
the haul is the same, there would be
no objection to the rate. But it should I
not be made H.he same to meet the com
mercial competition to Portland.
Mr. Hart asked whether or not In
a former rate case the same attorney
now appearing in this case did not rep
resent both the Portland and Seattle
chambers of commerce. The witness
was not familiar with the history of
that case and could not answer.
Hart Do you recall that the Walla
Walla rate on grain was reduced by
order of the commission?
Witness I recall that it was re
duced.
Efort to Show Bias.
Hart Isn't it true that rates are
lower from points where Portland gets
into the field than at Lind, for in
stance?
Witness I think that is true in some
cases.
Hart Is it your observation that the
open river competition as a factor in
rates did not bring the rates down?
That the potential influence of the
boats on the river did not bring the
expected results?
Witness I think that Is true.
Hart Referring to your map, the
portion shown in red has an average
distance of 24 miles in favor of Port
land. In your statement you used the
Northern Pacific as the shortest mile
age, did you not?
W ltness No, I did not; the com
bined mileage of the roads that made
the shortest route was made.
Hart Perhaps I misstated my ques
tion. I did not mean to raise a ques
tion as to your statement.
Hart Take Warden, outside the
blanketed area, if the mileage to Seat
tle is less than to Portland should not
Seattle have a lower rate from that
point?
Mileage Aot Only Question.
"Witness Tes, sir, if mileage were
the only consideration.
Hart You have spoken of the nat
ural advantages of Portland. Do you
think that Seattle is entitled to the
benefit of the short-line mileage be
tween Lind and Marengo and Seattle,
by the Milwaukee?
Witness Yes, sir. if there Is any nat
ural advantage, taking into account all
the conditions.
Hart Take Grangeville, the end of
the Camas Prairie line, at the south
eastern corner of the blanketed area,
you have a distance of about 20 miles
in favor of Seattle. Do you think that!
should have a lower rate to Seattle? -
Witness Yes. sir; if that is correct
I think that might be so.
Commissioner Eastman Take this
red territory, were some changes made
by the railroad administration in some
of the rates?
Witness r think some changes were
made on fruit shipments to the east.
Spokane inery Cloudy.
Hart Passing the question of the
haul over the mountains, would you
have any objection to the blanket ad
justment remaining as to Spokane,
which is 60 miles nearer Seattle?
Witness I do not think I under
stand. Hart As Spokane is nearer Seattle
by 0 miles and Pendleton 80 miles
nearer Portland, do you think the same
rule should be applied to both?
Witness If I were making the rate
T would apply the rate on a mileage
basis, taking into account other condi
tions. In answer to interrogation of Com
missioner Hall, Mr. Iothrop enunciated
his belief that rates should be based
upon mileage in all sections of the
country. He said that it is his opinion
market competition should not control
in rate making.
Hart Has Portland not asked for
the same rate to Klamath Falls that
San Francisco has to Klamath Falls?
Witness No. sir. it has not; we have
asked for a rate based on the relative
distance.
Hart What was the purpose in us
ing the equated mileage basis?
Witness The carriers have used the
equated mileage in other cases and we
considered that a good basis to use
here in presenting the evidence for the
consideration of the commission.
Mode of Comparison Sought.
Hart The purpose of the equated
mileage is to show the cost of service
over curves and grades. Is it not?
Witness The purpose is to make a
basis of comparison.
Hart Portland and Seattle have the
same rates from eastern common
points do they not?
V itness In transcontinental terri
tory, yes.
Hart Now the transcontinental rates
to Spokane are the same as to Portland
are they not?
Witness Not in all cases. Generally
that is the case, I believe.
Hart Has the parity of rates to
Portland and Seattle ever been ques
tioned before?
Witness Not to my knowledge.
History of the Astoria rate case was
gone into in the examination. Witness
said that he dropped in several times,
but did not have any part in the case.
.Natural Advantage" Diatcuased.
Hart You have referred to the natu
ral advantages of Portland. What do
you mean by that?
Witness That the . water grade
through the Columbia river gorge
should be used.
Hart Do you think that the Spo
kane, Portland & Seattle railroad,
which was built at a cost of $120,000 a
mile, should be disregarded?
Witness We have an example along
the Deschutes where one line was built
at nearly double the cost of the other.
and one. could easily handle all of the
traffic.
Hart Do you think the building of
the Spokane, Portland &. Seattle was a
mistake
Witness I do not know as to that:
I have no doubt it was of some benefit
to the community..
Hart Do you think the grain grow
er is not benefited by having the ad
vantage of the Seattle market?
Witness I do not think the interest
of the producer was considered as much
as the interest of the buyer.
Hart You have said you do not be
lieve in the equalization of markets?
Witness Yes, sir.
Hart Did Portland have her share of
export traffic prior to 1914?
Wheat Figures Offered.
Witness I think that is true.
Hart Did not Portland handle about
68 per cent of wheat exported prior to
1914?
v ltness I am not informed as to
the relative amount shipped.
Hart Do you not think Portland has
handled its share?
Witness It has handled a great deal.
but probably not as much as would
have been handled had the rates been
different.
Attorney Hart stated that m speak
ing of Seattle he combined Tacoma and
Seattle in the statements as to flour
and wheat shipments.
Hart Is it not true that if the bulk
of the grain came to Portland that
empty cars would have to be moved
from Portland to Seattle for loading
east?
Witness That might be; I do not
know.
Hart Does not San Francisco sell
about 60 per cent of the groceries in
this territory?
Witness I do not think so. If you
had said canned goods. I think that
mipht be true. But I do not think that
is the case on groceries.
Scott Henderson, representing Ta
coma, directed questions as to why dis
tance tables, as to certain points
had not employed the Milwaukee
instead of the Northern Pacific
in figuring the short-line distances
from several points in Washington
and Idaho. The wrtness said that
was because the fact that it would
have bren a shorter line was not din
covered in time to reconstruct the
table: that it would have. made a sligh
change in relation of distances, niak
The Problem of Civilization
Today Is Europe
The happiness and prosperity of every American home rests on
the solution of the tremendous social questions forced to the surface
by the stress of the Great War.
Europe's last hope ljes in America. America must understand
and appreciate the facts.
This is the opinion of Frank A. Vanderlip, Americans foremost
financier and business man, after four months of intensive study in
Europe.
He came to other startling conclusions.
Great changes must be made and made soon if civilization, as
now constituted, is to survive.
His report "What Happened to Europe " is creating more com
ment than any other book published since the armistice.
Will be presented in
The Sunday Oregonian
Beginning July 27'
n the mileage to Seattle less in come
canes than to Portland.
.T R. nairmbell (Snokane) Is it not
rue that as a member of the Portland
district freight traffic committee you
signed a recommendation that Spokane
should have a lower raie on iranuii-
inental traffic than Portland?
Witness Yes. sir.
Clyde G. Fulton (Astoria) At the
time of the Astoria rate case, did not
vour traffic and transportation enmmit-
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"- - - ,r-- - - - -...A - i i f i
FRANK A. VAM1RRI.1I. retiring prnldent of the loaa fit y
Bank. 4ttalrmmn of the ar SavioftM K ommltlrr and A mrrlri'H f I rat
authority on international finance and iae author of -What Happened
to Europe."
Read Vanderlip's Disclosures in The Sunday Oregonian Next Sunday.
BLANK'S
SAMPLE
SHOP
too discuss what attitude you should
Uike in the matter?
"Witness Portland rates were not un
der attack. The rommittot dtd not
deem it was its duty to intervene.
Fulton Isn't this the reason, and
the reHton that rouns! han f requentl y
stated, that you thought that IT Astoria
could ohiain a parity with Seattle that
Portland could then come in and pet a
lower rate?
Witness T could not wy what wa
in the minds of the people.
Fulton You do not rare what rate
are made. o Ion? as Portland Kts a
lower rte than Astoria?
WilneHX If you are askinc me wht
in the Kcntimrut of Portland. I would
have to bay there is a division on lh
matter.
Norwegian government experiment
era have succeeded in producing
hrad containing pr cent of fijh.
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S U 1 T S
to34-0
Buy a suit by my upstairs plan and you buy both well and wisely. Get this
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JIMMY DUNN
Original Upstairs Clothier
UPSTAIRS BROADWAY NEAR ALDER
Cat-ty Corner From Pantages Theater
'iSVVINGS t IVu
360 MORRISON
CORNER PARK
LOOK FOR THE BIG BLUE SIGN
The Sample Cloak Company Stock
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Suits, Coats
Dresses, Dolmans
Capes, Skirts
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POSITIVELY THE BIGGEST
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Balance of the Summer Hats
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Suits Values Up to $30
3(goS5
w
Dolmans, values to
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Serge Capes and Poplin
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to close at $6
3 $5.95
Silk Dresses
Vals. to $27.50
at only
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We refund money without question within 3
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Beautiful Serge Skirts, to
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Suits, valued up to $35,
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Sweater Slipovers, to
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ccr 360 Morrison -wi
Cor. Park St. Bis Blue Sign
rFTl 105.0