Street Roots • February 6-12, 2015
SAG AGE, from page 4
go to my siblings and some really good
friends that I can confide in and say
anything to. But the person I often go to, to
process and hash things out with is Terry.
Twenty years together and fairly often on
the same page about relationship and sex
issues — we are each other's sounding
boards.
S.Z.: You have m any critics, m any o f whom
are the conservative, “Family Values” crowd.
B u t m any o f your critics are feminists,
bisexual and transgendered people. Does
criticism from fem inist, LB G T Q community or
other left-leaning groups affect you differently
than criticism from the ‘moral R ight.’
D.S.: It’s more aggravating. Some people
are bizarrely invested in this caricature of
who I am and what I’ve said and what I’ve
done and what I believe. It says more about
them than it does about me.
It’s clear that I’m not trans-phobic or
bi-phobic. Has my advice always been
spectacular? No! But am I trans-phobic? No,
Am I bi-phobic? No.
We have enemies, LBGT people. We have
enemies. We don’t need to create them.
S.Z.: In fact, today you posted a Tumblr
response from Arielle Scarcella who calls out
LB G T Q com m unity fo r criticizing Macklemore
and Ryan Lewis.
D.S.: I love her.
S.Z.: You posted the video with a comment
that: “Too m any o f the queer social justice
on Tuwb.lr a n f f .
Twitter are more interested in “criticizing
allies fo r not doing it perfectly. ” Doesn’t this
kind o f statement kind o f rattle the beehive?
You speak so confidently that people assume
that you see yourself as the end-all authority on
everything.
D.S.: (Laughs) Oiie of my first editors at
The Stranger was this really wonderful
woman named Christine Wenc. I would
write things and preface it with, “I think ....”
blah blah blah. She would come to me and
say, “This is a piece that you are writing
that has your byline on i t It is what you ,
think. You don’t have to say it’s what you
think. We know it’s what you think, it’s your
column.”
Sometimes I believe people think I think
I am coming down the mountain with the
tablets, when I am just presenting my POV,
but not framing it as an “I” statement.
S.Z.: I read your column regularly and
enjoy it. Sometimes I think you offer some
great insights, other times, I ’m not buyin’ what
yo u ’re selling.
D.S.: Find me the writer on earth that
any single individual agrees with about
everything. I don’t even agree with myself
about everything. I read things I wrote five
or 10 years ago and I’m like, “Wow. I don t
believe that anymore.” My position can
evolve.
So, this attitude that some people have
on the left that somebody who is also on the
left who has written or said something that I
disagree with is now my mortal enemy, is
just bizarre. There are people on the left I
disagree with and I regard them as my
comrades in rhetorical arms with whom I
have these small disagreements - not
people that I have to crucify. And it’s not all
News
The project is LBGT adults sharing their
people who disagree with me on the left
who have that reaction. It’s these self-
stories, their lives, their strategies for how
they got through it, how they made it (life)
appointed, bat-shit, thought police,
better forthemselves. How they survived
psychopaths who would rather go after
someone who is actually going to listen to
their adolescence with LGBT kids who
them and pay attention to them.
might not have access to LBGT adult role
Bill O’Reilly is not going to give you the
models - and that is really crucial.
time of day. FOX News? Not every word that
A kid is bullied because of his race or her
J’ve written about transgendered people’s
faith or his class, goes home to his or her
issues has been perfect, but we all know a
parents and siblings and aunts and uncles or
lot more now than we did 25 years ago when grandparents and they are the same race,
I started writing the column.
same class, same faith who will support
Think Progress has done this wonderful
them if they open up about the bullying they
job documenting all of the really vicious and
are facing. And even if they don’t talk about
vile and dangerous
it, they are living
anti-trans bigotry and
examples of
rhetoric that FOX
perseverance - you
News is pumping into "It*s siot enough to lo o k at what can get through this.
people are d oing to determ ine
homes all over
Queer kids all too
America in red states whales healthy? whales m -
often go home to no
and arguably
healthy. We have to lo o k at who queer role models or
endangering trans
to parents, as in
they are/*
people’s lives.
Leelah Alcorn’s case.
There are no
S.Z.: Leelah Alcorn
demonstrations at
is a tragic example o f
FOX News
parental bullying. (Leelah Alcorn was a
headquarters. And yet these trans activists^
transgender girl who, citing loneliness, abuse
often allies of trans people, not actual trans
and alienation, committed suicide in
people, will come to my speech in protest
because I’m an anti-trans bigot There is Fox December and posted her suicide note online.)
News headquarters, 20 blocks away. And
D.S.: What the “It Get’s Better Project”
there has never been a demonstration.
does is provide to queer kids (a source) for
It’s not like my shit don’t stink. I’m saying
that information and those strategies, that
I have not gotten everything right over the
perspective of an adult person like them
25 years I’ve been writing. But in the
that they often don’t have access to.
aggregate, I have a lot more (good things) to
show than shit. And I get these relentless
S.Z.: W hat can one do when the bullies
attacks.... I proposed to some trans folks:
aren’t ju st (or even) at school, but rather, in
You announce the demo at Fox News HQ in
one’s own home?
midtown Manhattan, and I will be there. *
D.S.: There are lots of “It Gets Better”
And I will talk it up and will make sure that
videos that talk about that. I think some of
my readers know about it and as many of
the most impactful “It Gets Better” videos
them that can get there will be there. But
are people - queer adults - with the parents
let’s take it to them. But, nothing. Silence. I
who bullied them throughout adolescence.
don’t understand it.
And the parents apologizing to their kids for
Why with so much agitos and activism
what they did to them.
around the trans issue right now, there is
That really gives a lot of queer kids hope
this ...going after Germaine Greer?! Let’s go
- when they see parents, who were the
throw glitter at Germaine Greer (Greer was
bullies that their parents are, who have
glitter bombed by a group of protesters in
come around.
2012 for her 2009 comments about trans
Some of the videos recommend: don’t
women) and the people at Fox News can
come out of the closet. Tell your parents
leave the building unmolested every day.
what you must. Tell them what they insist
Google “trans” and “Keith Ablow” and
on hearing and run out the clock. That is a
see what comes up and then compare it to
horrible message in some ways. But in some
anything I ever said that trans people
cases, it is the only realistic message.
objected to. What (Ablow) is saying is
There are videos made by people who
insanely toxic and there is no Tumblr war on
say, “My parents are fundamentalist
Keith Ablow.
Christians or Mormons and rabidly anti-gay,
I am listening and paying attention and
and they’ve thrown one kid out already
my position is evolving. I am an ally and I
because he came out or had pre-marital sex,
am on trans people’s side.
and I knew I couldn’t tell them without
I haven’t used the word “trannie” in
imperiling my safety, my education. And so I
years. The only time I use it is to talk about
didn’t tell them, I waited.” And sometimes
how I stopped using it. Why do you not
that is the best message.
know that? Because all of the stir and drive
A mistake that the LGBT community
about it online is in the present tense.
makes when talking to LGBT youth is
S.T.-. You and your partner began “I t Gets
pretending that “coming out” is the solution
Better” in 2010. The organization’s mission is
. to all of your problems, when for a lot of
to communicate to lesbian, gay, bisexual and
kids, coming out - or being outed - (can be)
transgender youth around the world that it
the beginning of much more serious
gets better, and to create and inspire the
problems.
changes needed to make it better fo r them. Tell
Another failing is we also don’t tell our
me how the project works.
LGBT youth that when they come out, not
all LGBT adults are nice. Then you have
D.S.: It’s very simple. My theory is that
kids coming out who think everybody they
you don’t look at people and present them
meet who is queer is going to be a nice
with a huge problem and make them feel
helpless. You look at people and you present person and is going to look out for them.
Their expectation is that trans, gay, lesbian,
them with something they can do: a doable
bisexual people will be better people. And
thing.
Page 5
we’re not necessarily better.
S.Z.: W/z the advent o f “Fifty Shades o f
Grey” book and f i l m ... people’s kinks are
becoming recognized by the mainstream.
Basically, “consent” is the new “gay” for
mainstream America.
D.S.: Consent is the baseline that has
always existed. When you look at a picture
of two people engaged in hardcore BDSM
and you look at a picture of missionary
position, heterosexual intercourse and I
were to tell you to pick the one that is
violent, a lot of people would pick the
BDSM.
But what if that act were completely
consensual and the missionary position
photo reflects (an act of) force or coercion?
Then that’s rape. That’s violence.
It’s not enough to look at what people are
doing to determine what’s healthy, what’s
unhealthy. We have to look at who they are.
Are they consenting adults who want to be
there and enjoy what’s happening? That’s
the standard by which we should judge
sexual conduct - are all parties involved,
joyful and willing participants?
For years, I’ve called it, the magic
ingredient Consent turns to fairy dust. It
turns something ugly into something
beautiful.
S.Z.: From my perspective, you have spent
much o f your career, norm ing your lifestyle for
“m ainstream ” America: you are an openly gay
m an who, with one hand, offers the suggestion
that his partner looks great in leather, while
with the other hand, adopts a nd raises a child,
who is straight. I get the sense that you have
spent a lot o f your time norm ing what already
is norm al fo r you.
D.S.: It’s what’s normal for us. Bringing
this back to my critics on the radical queer
fringe, sometimes they call me a
heteronormative assimilationist and (accuse
me) of being sex negative - which just
makes me laugh!
We are a gay couple with a child who
came out as non-monogamous. We go to
events like International Mr. Leather; Terry
puts pictures of himself in fetish gear (on
social media sites). Urn. We are about as
non-heteronormative and non-assimilationist
as you get.
We entered the mainstream, but on our
own terms without compromising who we
are. At all.
So, it’s not that we changed or we’re
asking other queer people to change. We
made demands, not on queer people to
change, but on straight people to change.
That’s not heteronormative, assimilist sell
out shit. That’s radical-queer-barging-in shit.
S.Z.: Favorite Valentine’s memory?
D.S.: Oh my God. All of the Valentine’s
Days I’ve spent with Terry were neither of
us got each other anything ... because we
don’t really give a shit.
My Valentine’s Day present is the cup of
tea Terry makes for me every morning
before I come downstairs. And I pick up
after him after breakfast without saying
anything. That’s what matters - those
constant daily acts that no amount of
flowers and chocolates one day a year could
compensate for, or replace.