5
Street roots
July 18, 2014
L i Ü
BITCH, from page 4
very toxic ones.
S.Z.: There is a “rebranding of feminism”
happening. Waves of feminism. What does
“fourth-wave feminism” look like?
À
x À
;
May. There was much discussion in the media
about her discovery weeks before her dismissal
that she was paid less in wages and pension
than her male predecessors. The word “pushy”
was also used by management at the Times -
a characterization that has a gendered aspect
to say the least.
myths about masculinity and what it means
to be a successful, sexual m ale.... My son is
five. He is going to start public school next
year. It is terrifying to think that the
statistics are against him. I feel like they’re
against all of us.
S.Z.: Advertising and
A.Z.: I wrote a piece about this for the
beauty culture? How do
Bitch site. It was about why her firing
we survive it?
matters. It speaks to the whole, “lean in”
philosophy that people have really
A.Z.: Media literacy. Ik e gfcaleaf©s 1® woiaeifs
embraced over the past couple of years, this
r o iw liw jiistlce and
The
.more ads and the
idea that the COO of Facebook (Sheryl
more
imperatives
that
bodüy
autonomy is a global
Sandberg) wrote this book about women
exist and the more
issue s It affects education, it
“leaning in” and how they shouldn’t pull
products exist, the
away from work. As though they were. I ’m
affects economies, It affects
more widely
not sure why she felt the need to write this
a
silHIoa little things that
disseminated push;
book, but it was basically a guide fot women
people
don't recognize when
back there is - often
at work. It spoke specifically to white
bÿ the same people
women in high paying corporate jobs. So
«they see It as simply "her
when it came out, a lot of the thinking was
who are creating the
problem" « "a weaieif s
this doesn’t speak to the majority of women. products to begin with.
Issue." It is crucial to l a w
When Jill Abramson was fired, my first
Dove is an incredible
not just jwomestf
thought was, “This sums up thé problems
example of that. Dove
with the whole “lean in” philosophy.”
la
the
light
for weiiter/s
makes beauty
Because “lean in” presupposes a kind of
reproductive justice, ©a all
products. They are
trickle down feminism where if women at
owned by Unilever
levels, T bafs definitely
the top have it easier, it will eventually
which makes all kinds
soaethiag that this case has
make it so that women in minimum wage
of beauty products
jobs or undocumented women. It
underscored.
worldwide, but they
presupposes that all of these things will get
also
do
these
better if women at the very top, in elite
campaigns that
professions, change the culture.
demystify tilings like
Jill Abramson’s firing really reiterated the
photoshopping and the
idea that things aren’t changing - even at
number of ads that
thé top. It is literally the same dynamic. If
young girls see in the span of a day, or toxic,
the first female executive editor of thé New
self inflicted body image issues. They put
York Times can’t get equal treatment, what
those out, but at the same time, they are
hope
does
anyone
else
have?
She
didn’t
feel
S.Z.: This next generation of feminists, and
sort of responsible for. creating them. It’s a
comfortable. She spoke up; She was
really the whole feminist movement now has
really tricky thing that they’re doing. It has
punished for it. And not only was she
social media...
to do with the idea that as a company, their
punished, she was punished using the same
language that has been used to demean and
mandate is not to make more women feel
N Z .\ That’s huge. The things that
browbeat women all through history.
b e tte r ab o u t th em selv es, it’s to m ake
feminism has been able to accomplish via
money. They are realizing that one way to
It’s depressing and I think it really does
•social media is incredible. When people
point out that “ leaning in” only works 3f you
get women to spend mopey is to make them
complain that the younger feminists don’t
I are already in a pretty golden seat.-
- feel good about themselves.
care about feminism, all you have to do,
Realizing that beauty culture is a
really, is póint them to Twitter. And I think
S.Z.: And even then... does anyone rèally
construction can be helpful. But it s also
they might want to recheck their facts,
think that any editor 8 nò offense - i s not
important to realize that buying into it
because (young feminists) really do care and
“pushy” regardless of their gender?
doesn’t mean buying into it hook, line and
they are doing something.
sinker. You can enjoy makeup. You can
A.Z.: You sort of have to be.
enjoy looking how you like to look, but not
S.Z.: Have you been following the
feel like you’re alone. Everyone is affected
#YesAllWomen hashtag?,
S.Z.: Right. Like do people think, “That
by it and no one is immune to it.
man is being really pushy in the way he’s I
A.T.: #YesAllWomen came out of the r
talking to his employees?” and then, “Well,
shooting on campus at Santa Barbara by
S.Z.: How has motherhood affected, your
he’s a, man, men are like that.”
this young,, privileged, disturbed man who
politics, ideas or feelings about feminism, if at
was essentially blaming women for not
all? 5
A.Z.: I was really encouraged to see a
giving him the attention and the sex that he
couple of male editors on Twitter saying,
felt he was owed by being reasonably
A.Z.: I’ve always been pro-choice. I am, ,,
“Yeah, she’s pushy and that is exactly what
handsome and rich.
,.
. .
^
seriously, 500 percent more pro-choice
she should be.” If that’s a problem for
It’s very weird that we live in a political >
management, then that’s their problem. |
since becoming a mother. Because being a
climate where the first reaction to an event
parent is so hard.
íiké this by a critical mass of men is, “Well, I
S.Z.: Last month, Reynolds High Schoolin
This sort of right-wing notion that women
don’t do that, so therefore it’s not as big a
Troutdale became the 74th school shooting
go
into abortions sort of willy nilly is nuts to
deal. This isn’t an endemic issue, this is
since the Newtown shootings in December
me. I’ve never had one, but I know many,
about this one dude.”
®
2012. That is just shy of a shooting a week.
many people who have. None of them have
Feminists are saying, “No. We’re living
What are your thoughts on gun violence, mass
taken it lightly. Even if it was an easy
this. It’s not just about this one guy. It’s
shootings and gender?
about a larger culture that really believes
decision to make, based on circumstances,
that men are entitled to women and their
no one took it lightly.
A.Z.: I’m really angry. I am so angry that
If you want to be a mother, you absolutely
bodies and their attention.” It escalates via
it has become such a partisan issue that it
should have that choice and if you don’t
social media, but it is a dynamic that has
can’t even be talked about. Certainly there
(Want to be a mother), you absolutely
been going on forever.
is a pattern to these shootings and the
pattern has to do with - 1 forget what writer should have that choice.
S.Z.: You might not pull out a gun and
In other ways I feel strongly about
coined this term - aggrieved entitlement
shoot me because you are frustrated. Then
teaching kids media literacy. It is such a
among men. White men mostly feeling like
again, you might. Or you might do something
crucial time. It’s a cliche that little kids are
the world is against them. That the natural
else to subdue or demean women...
order has somehow been violated by women like sponges, but they are. They absolutely
becoming educated and empowered and
’ are- I ’ "
. r
. .
A Z • Yeah. Right It’s one of those things,
able to speak up for themselves and be their
As young as three they are picking up on
things’like this #NotAUMen, #YesAllWomen
the idea that things are gendered and their
own people.
.
they’re are simultaneously exhilarating and
If you look at the campus shootings over
teaching that to each other. My son really
frustrating. At the time, they seem really
the last 10 years or so, many have been
wants to like that movie, “Frozen,” but he
vital and needed, but as time goes on, you
motivated by a form of sexism. It’s really -
feels like he can’t because there are these
realize how many people don’t get i t And
frustrating that the media, every time it
sort of gatekeepers at his school who are
how the ignorance ends up taking
happens refuses to engage with the idea
like, “Princesses are for girls. That’s a girl
precedence over the voices of the people
that there is sexism going on and that there
movie.” They don’t know the extent of what
who do get it and who do want a change.
is a gendered reason for these shootings.
they’re doing, but they’re doing it because
The shooter in Isla Vista (Calif.) was the
S Z ’ Jill Abramson, the former executive
the media is giving them those messages.
product of a very sexist society that had
ed il^ro flh eii^'io T i'Y ita esa n d th efiK l
taught him a lot of untrue, but very common It’s just automatic.
„ornan to hold that position, was fired tn
A.Z.: I don’t subscribe to the “wave”
metaphor. I just don’t like it because the
idea of waves sort of ends up looking like
one wave ¿rashes down and wipes out the
wave before it, and that’s not how it should
be. It should be more of a building
metaphor, the waves — generationally,
chronologically — they should build on one
and another.
We’re talking about the same issues:
equal pay, work-life balancé, about sexuality.
All of these things are identical. The only
difference is there is a slightly different
framework.
There is always an urge with feminists to
separate yourself from what came before,
and so when Bitch first started, third-wave
feminism was having Its sort of growing-pain
struggle and pop culture had a lot to do with
th a t Second-wave feminists thought, “Why
do you care about pop culturé, why does
that matter?” And third-wave feminists were
saying, “Well it matters, and if you can’t see
that, we don’t want to have anything to do
with you\”
My sense is that we are still in this
together. Many of thé women who were
(involved in the movement then), are still
really active. I admire that immensely
because this is exhausting work and it can
really bum you out.