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street roots
M ay 11, 2012
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Journalist and author Fred Williams talks
about the cut-throat world o f debt collection
BY ROSETTE ROY ALE
Fred Williams
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u n d e rc o v e r and n e v e r lied to c u sto m e rs —
CONTRIBUTING WRITER
b u t h e did have an objective: to se e how
orking as a d e b t collector, jo u rn a list
d e b t collection w orks on th e inside.
F re d W illiam s d iscovered th e
W hat h e found led to his 2010 book,
e x tre m e tac tic s collection ag en cies
“F ighting B ack A gainst U nfair D e b t
u se to cage th e rig h ts of th o s e in a rre a rs
C ollection P ra ctice s: K now y o u r R ights and
H e re ’s a confession: In m y y o u n g e r days,
P ro te c t Y ourself from T h re a ts , L ies, and
I w as an u n re p e n ta n t shopaholic. I lived in
In tim id atio n .” A long w ith providing an
M aine, w orking a t Colby C ollege, m y alm a
in trig u in g n a rra tiv e ab o u t w h a t a d e b t
m ater, an d tw ice a m o n th I w ould drive 70
c o lle c to r’s day looks like, W illiam s also
m in u te s in m y brand-spanking new 1990 VW
o ffers so u n d financial advice, su ch as how to
G olf to th e o u tle t m all in F re e p o rt. R alph
re a d a c re d it r e p o r t and how to n e g o tia te a
L au ren , Cole H aan, W ilson’s L e a th e r, L.L.
d e b t se ttle m e n t. S ince th e b o o k ’s
B ean. I to re a blue s tre a k th ro u g h th o se
pub licatio n , W illiam s h a s a p p e a re d on
sto re s, ra re ly sto p p in g to c o n sid e r th a t m y
C N B C ’s “O n th e M o n ey ” an d A BC’s “G ood
d e sire to look good w as o v ershadow ed by
M o rn in g , A m e ric a.”
m y ability to pay to look good. M y favorite
W illiam s no lo n g er w o rk s as a d e b t
p u rc h a se from 20 y e a rs ago? A p a ir of ta n
collector. H e ’s now an e d ito r w ith a financial
su ede-cordovan brow n le a th e r saddle O xford
n ew s se rv ic e called SN L F inancial, w h e re,
sh o e s w ith brow n m eta l eyelets. C ost: $195.
h e said, “We g e t a lo t of calls fo r S atu rd ay
I d o n ’t have a clue w h e re th o s e sh o e s are
N ig h t L ive.” A nd w hile m o st p e o p le
now, m u ch le ss a n y th in g e lse I b o u g h t. B u t
w o u ld n ’t c o n sid e r d e b t a laughing m atte r,
you know w h a t I still have? M e m o rie s of th e
W illiam s sp o k e com pellingly, an d w ith
n a u se a te d , h e a rt-th u m p in g se n sa tio n I g o t
h u m o r, a b o u t d eceitfu l d e b t c o llecto rs, th e
w h e n a d e b t c o llec to r called. B e ca u se , w ith
c u tth ro a t w o rk e n v iro n m en t, th e u n h e a lth y
a sa la ry of $18 ,5 0 0 , p u rch a sin g a $65 raw
tie s b e tw e e n co llectio n a g en c ie s an d c re d it
silk tie a d o rn e d w ith ring-necked p h e a sa n ts
c ard co m p an ies, an d w h a t c o n su m e rs can do
on a field of lig h t p u rp le fabric a in ’t a w ise
to sto p th o s e abusive calls. H e lau n c h ed into
idea. B u t I h ad VISA an d A m erican E x p re ss
it all b e fo re I ev en ask ed him a q u e stio n .
an d o th e rs , so I rev eled in m y privileged
“So I w as a r e p o r te r a t th e B in g h am to n
m e m b e rsh ip and^charged ev ery th in g . And
P re s s , an d d e b t co llectio n is a p re tty big
d id n ’t sto p until m y unpaid c re d it card bills,
b u sin e ss a ro u n d th e re , for w h a te v e r rea so n .
clo se to $ 5 ,0 0 0 , w e n t in to collection, and
A nd w e ’d h e a r from p e o p le w ho h ad b e e n
th e d e b t c o llec to rs cam e a fte r m e. T h in g s
called by th e m , saying th e y ’d b e e n
g o t so bad, I w o u ld n ’t ev en a n sw e r m y w o rk
th r e a te n e d th a t th e ir h o u se w ould b e
p h o n e , for fe a r th e rin g h e ra ld e d so m e o n e
a u c tio n e d o u t from u n d e r th e m o r th e y ’d b e
w an tin g th e m o n ey I ow ed.
p u t in jail fo r re n e g in g o n d e b ts. So I g o t th e
Finally, a fte r y e a rs of ru n n in g from m y
im p re ssio n th e s e b u s in e s s e s w e re u sin g
p a s t sh o p p in g s p re e s by chan g in g p h o n e
p re tty h a rs h tac tic s. A nd of c o u rs e th o s e a re
n u m b e rs an d a d d re ss e s , I rea liz ed I h ad to
illegal tac tic s. B u t w ith o u t really g ettin g
pay th o s e bills. So I w orked, m ailed in
in sid e th e in d u stry , th e co m p a n ie s w ould
m e a g e r c h ec k s e v e ry m o n th and, som ehow ,
ju s t say, ‘Well, th e r e ’s alw ays so m e bad
c le a re d up th e d e b t. To n o t have to avoid a
a p p le s, an d p e o p le d o n ’t w a n t to pay th e ir
p h o n e call — w h a t joy. B u t I o ften w o n d ered ,
d e b ts, so th e y m ak e c o m p lain ts’ and ‘Well,
listen in g to th e ir m e ssa g e s, w h a t it to o k to
o n ce in a w hile, w e ’ll g e t so m e o n e w ho g o es
b e a d e b t collector. H ow in th e h ell could
o v er th e line, b u t w e ’ll te rm in a te th e m .’ B u t
so m e o n e b e so m e a n on th e p h o n e? T h a t’s
th e volum e of th e co m p lain ts th a t w e re
w hy I w a n te d to sp e a k to F re d W illiam s.
com ing in, an d th e w ay financial in cen tiv es
N o t th a t W illiam s is m ean . O n th e
w e re s e t u p m ad e m e th in k th a t m aybe it
c o n trary , h e ’s affable and accom m odating .
w as m o re th a n th a t. T h a t m aybe th e
H e also w o rk ed as a d e b t collector. To do
p ra c tic e s w e re really w id e sp rea d . So, in
so, h e le ft h is jo u rn a lism job in u p s ta te N ew
o rd e r to really c h ec k th a t out, I finally h ad
York an d in 2008 s p e n t th r e e m o n th s calling
to leave th e n ew sro o m and ta k e a jo b as a
p eo p le on th e p h o n e, asking th e m to pay off
d e b t co llec to r a t o n e of th e m a in stre a m
th e ir d e b ts. H e did so h o n e stly — h e w a sn ’t
co llectio n c o m p an ies o p e ra tin g in th e
W
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Buffalo a re a , to se e w hat really w en t o n .”
R osette Royale: How was it to be a debt
collector?
e x p e c te d . Well, m aybe so m e p a rts of it
w ere. It w as p re tty e asy to g e t th e job. I
w e n t rig h t in w ith m y re g u la r re s u m e , m y
real n am e an d 25 y e a rs of jo u rn a lism
e x p e rie n c e . T h ey ask ed m e w hy I w a n te d to
w o rk th e re . I told th e m th e tr u th , w hich
w as th a t I h e a rd a lo t a b o u t co llectio n , a n d I
w a n te d to s e e w h a t it w as really like for
m yself. T h e n th e r e w as a w e e k of c la ssro o m
train in g . L o ts of young guys, a co u p le guys
h ad a re c o rd , o th e r guys h a d n ’t q u ite
fin ish ed high school. T h e tra in in g w as all o n
th e u p an d up. I t w as a b o u t w h a t th e F air
D e b t C o llectio n P ra c tic e s A ct says, w h a t th e
ru le s a re , w h a t you can an d c a n ’t do. So th a t
w as kind of im p ressiv e. B u t th e train in g
kind of sk ew ed to w ard p u sh in g th e line of
w h a t you can do.
O nce w e g o t o n th e p h o n e s, w e w ere
m aking u p w a rd s of 100 to m aybe 200 calls a
day, usually c re d it card acco u n ts. M o st of
th e s e w e re acc o u n ts th a t h ad b e en
d e lin q u e n t fo r so m e tim e. And w h a t I saw
w as th a t h a rs h th re a ts and tric k s w ere
w as p re tty m u ch th e only way to g e t m o n ey
o u t of th e s e v e ry old an d difficult acco u n ts.
A nd ev en th o u g h th e co m p an y d id n ’t, in my
h e a rin g , say an y th in g explicitly a b o u t how to
th r e a te n o r tric k p e o p le , te c h n iq u e s w e re
p a sse d a ro u n d by o th e r c o llecto rs. (T h e)
m o re e x p e rie n c e d c o llecto rs, w e ’d se e w h a t
th e y w e re doing. E v en th e tra in e e s ju s t a
w e ek a h e a d of you in th e p ro g ra m w ould
have all th is know ledge th a t you w ould
ab so rb , h e a rin g th e m o n th e p h o n e s.
R.R.: W b f would be a trick that someone
would use?
F.W.: Well, o n e of th e m o s t su c ce ssfu l
c o llec to rs - h e w as a w e e k o r tw o a h e a d of
m e — w ould call u p an d say h e w as a frau d
in v estig ato r, w hich w as b latan tly u n tru e .
H e ’d say, “I ’m calling fro m VISA, a n d I n e e d
to sp e a k to ” w ho h ad th e firs t n a m e o n th e
acco u n t. T h a t w as v e ry effective g e ttin g
See COLLECT, page 9
By Eileen Kennedy
I m ove n e a r e r to you a n d to u c h y o u r a rm .
You a re q u iet now, en v elo p ed in th e sile n t d a rk o f th e n ig h t.
I love you an d y e t I do n o t love you.
I feel h u m iliated by m y pain.
I feel a sh a m e d of all th a t I felt w ith you.
W hat w e n t w rong?
You a re now a fre e m an an d I am a w om an.
I rise an d sta n d by th e w indow.
I am q u iet now, en v elo p ed in th e p u n g e n t w a rm th of th e n ig h t,
look for th e m oon, b u t th e n ig h t re m a in s h id d e n fro m view,
h e a r a wild so u n d , b u t it is only m y h e a r t c ry in g in th e
m o o n le ss night.
& FUN
TO
SHOP
« LO C ALLY
OW NED
w w w .n e w s e a s o n s m a r k e t.c o m
& OPERATED
•.
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Fred W illiam s: It w as n o t w h a t I
Moonless Night
EASY
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