5
Street roots
O ct 28, 2011
WHAT'S REAL, from page 4
more importantly, gave me “cover” in the art
world of today, where painting political
subjects are avoided and even disdained.
J.Z.: “Torture Abu Ghraib,” that is a difficult
painting to look at.
M.G.: I know. A lot of people tell me th a t
Torture is a terrible thing, but it is just as bad
when artists and cultural workers in general
hide the truth, like was done in totalitarian
countries, and I’m sorry to say it even
happens too often in our country.
J.Z.: I ’m wondering, in this highly
documented world, what role yourpaintings, the
realism, can play today. I can look at pictures of
Abu Ghraib. I can see the images of the protests
and of Occupy Wall Street. All of that’s coming
to me in the realism of photographs and film.
What role does a painting play in chronicling
all of this?
M.G.: I just think that painting, or art,
plays a role. It plays a role of expressing the
feelings of a particiilar time and place, from a
personal point of view. This is the point of
view of the artist who is living in that
particular time and place. And I feel that this
communication can be stronger in personal
terms than when you take a photograph. But
photographs are powerful and very
im portant Also, painting is just one of many
forms of expression and should be free to
express even the most inhuman conditions.
It’s the subject matter, but also the
expression or the realistic painting of the
subject matter, that brings it closer to the
public, and this is what has been denied, in
my opinion. A woman stood in front of my
“Torture Abu Ghraib” and she was crying. It
really did affect her. She said, ‘You just don’t
see this land of work’. This is the kind of
thing that communicates. And I don’t think
it’s the subject matter alone.
3.2.'. Looking over the decades of your work,
arid scenes to really being interpretive.
M.G.: It’s interesting that you say that. I
hafve paintings that are political. But if you’ve
looked at some ofthe paintings I ’ve done in
1968 or ‘6 9 ,1 put in specific symbols to get
specific points across more easily. There’s
one called the “Flag Vendor,” a white guy
with an army jacket selling flags. I thought of
the war veteran, and this is all he can do;
peddle something on the streets. The irony is
that here he is, selling the flag, something he
fought for: freedom. But it’s all become so
. commercialized. He’s not the herb on the :
battlefield, arid I wanted to get that image
across. My painting technique is crude here
compared to my recent painting and perhaps
is not as controversial. In general my work
has also become more naturalistic.
J.Z.: When people look at your works, do you
think they come away thinking differently about
the politics you’re projecting?
M.G.: I think people do. But most people
will just be affected by the emotion that I’m
getting acrbss, and usually if they talk to me,
they say they like what I’m painting. I had an
exhibition at the Hospital Workers Union
Gallery in 2008 and my “Torture Abu Ghraib”
painting was there, even though it wasn’t
finished. Some union members who looked at
it came over to me and said, “Are those
American soldiers?” and I said yes. They said,
“You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You are
un-American. How can you do that? Those
boys are fighting for our freedom,” and so on
and so forth. So of course I said torture was
un-American and we were in Iraq based on
fictitious reasons, slaughtering people for oil
and greed. And it became pretty much a
yelling match and the guards had to come in
to be sure it didn’t get violent But most
people are supportive of the painting and
especially of my right to express my feelings.
And I might add that these people who
disagree with me should express their ideas
and not prevent me from exhibiting my work,
as is our American constitutional right.
J.Z.: I imagine your audience is either
already in your camp or it’s not.
M.G.: Most people enjoy seeing my
“Peace March,”above, 48” x 70” oil on
canvas, 2007, shows an array o f people,
young and old, joining in a procession in
New York City. The key for Ginsburg was
their expression o f determination. A t right,
“Torture Abu Ghraib,” 4 6 ” x 32 ”oil on
canvas, 2009, is reminiscent o f the
crucifixion o f Christ in an effort to express
Gÿisburg[s outrage at th ehypoçris y o f the
religous leaders who supported the war and
torture.
paintings, because of the artistic value. Very
few raise objection to my subject matter even
if they, disagree with some of my ideas. Even
many abstract artists seem to get a kick out of
my work.
■
J.Z.: Your paintings get people talking about
those things.,
M.G.: I think so. I was mainly painting a
slice of life. In every one of those paintings,
I’m dealing with the social condition, and
maybe most people just pass it by like you
pass by life. So you see people of color taking
care of rich kids who are usually white. And
that’s a social condition that exists, and
people take it for granted. In my painting
“Nannies and Kids” (2003) you see a black
woman solid like a rock caring for two little
kids who look like Bouguereau’s angels. And
all the nannies around also seem to be from
some minority groups. Sometimes you see
the reverse, but rarely. Poor people and
slaves have been caring for rich people’s kids
for centuries. And you wonder sometimes
who are the real parents.
In “Two Worlds,” there are three guys
sitting idle inside a basketball court, whereas
on the other side, you have white guys
walking around fast like they have things to
do. These social relationships make the
painting interesting in addition to the design
and artistic qualities.
1
B m
Tig
111111
ggh
1
w
t
i
J.Z.: Having looked at all the decades of civil
strife, and where we are today, as an observer of
all this, what’s your outlook?
M.G.: I tend to be an optimist Nothing is
ever perfect the world or my a r t But we are
always striving for a more perfect world and a
perfect painting.
As for the ills in the world, and as part of
the 99 percent we have to fight against greed
and corruption. At the mom ent the Occupy
Wall Street movement seems to be positive
and encouraging. I think that greed and
corruption are going to be around for a long
time, and I think that as a human being and
as an artist I will feel like a better person if
I’m part of the 99 percent who are opposing
it. And my art is a part of my expression.
Sure, it would be nice if there were more
fairness around and so on, but I guess it’s
always going to be a battle, because there’s
always a certain amount of greed and
hypocrisy going on.
J.Z.: I feel like you do, but I am energized by
the Occupy Wall Street movement.
M.G.: Me too! But I was energized when
the Allies defeated fascism. I was energized
when Martin Luther King Jr. led the struggle
to end segregation and when unions enabled
workers to enjoy a better standard of living.
But then there were setbacks. The 1 percent
took their factories overseas to become super
wealthy, making thousands of workers
unemployed, and the Supreme Court ruled
corporations to be people and the so-called
“middle class” is realizing they are really part
of the poorer 1 percent So it is energizing to
see our Occupy Wall Street movement
fighting back.