street roots
9
Jan. 7, 2011
WHITE PEOPLE, fro m page 8
person who goes through this, and everyone is
like, “That’s me, that’s me, that’s me.” We’re all
exactly the same. But the truth is, a humbling
experience like that is good for me, for sure,
because if unchecked, white people become
some of the most obnoxious people on earth.
(Laughs.)
I know I’m more obnoxious than I’m
supposed to be, I know I’m more full of myself
than I’m supposed to be. I’m aware of this. And
I feel like, by writing and skewering myself,
maybe I can become a better person. I mean,
it’s not working. But I’m hoping that eventually,
I can back off and stop spending so much time
thinking about how great I am because I eat at
Salumi instead of a chain restaurant. I wish it
worked better than it did. I really do.
R.R.: You talk about these other people who are,
“Hey, that’s me. ” Why are there so many of the
“Hey, that’s m e”?
C.L.: I think we can blame the baby boomers
for that, for raising us that way. It’s very strange
being raised in this generation where, “We’re
all unique, we’re all special, we’re all unique,
we're all special." Over and over and over and
over and over again. It’s amazing. As self-
obsessed as we are, we’re not as self-aware as
you would think.
I don’t know. I think we’ve reached this weird
end of history of whiteness, because I’ve
traveled to Australia and the UK to promote the
book, and white people there are exactly the
same as the ones that I’m writing about here.
We get to this point at the end where all we
have left is this selfishness and this idea that
we’re this perfectly unique being. And I don’t
know where we go from here or how we got
here. But it seems to have set in across the
world. With white people. Maybe this is late-
stage capitalism.
R.R.: I t might indeed be. So you were going to
school fo r ...
C.L.: I was getting my Ph.D. in film and
literature.
R.R.: And what happened?
C.L.: I m et my wife, got married and dropped
out. And moved to Los Angeles. I was getting
fed up with the intolerance of graduate school
and it sounds weird, because you think, “Open
mind, culture of the mind,” everything like that.
Everyone thought exactly th e same way,
everyone was far left liberal. And I don’t have a
problem with that: I’m a leftwing liberal. I won’t
ever deny that. But I just got to the point where
the smugness and the patting themselves on
the back, just absolute conviction that they’re
right and there is no other way to think, this
isn’t open-minded at all. That was starting to
drive me absolutely nuts. And yeah, we bailed.
We packed up and left, and I haven’t regretted
it
R.R.: What prompted the move to L.A.?
C.L.: I always had dreamt about being a
w riter on “The Simpsons” and “The Critic,” and
all of these TV shows that I loved. But I
realistically felt, “how am I going to get a
chance? How am I ever going to get a break?” It
was a dream I just land of gave up on, even at
fourteen. I focused on journalism and that
didn’t work out because I wasn’t very good at
th a t And then I went to academia, so when I
m et my wife and we dropped out, we were in
the middle of the country. We had no debt
because we taught the whole time in grad
school. We had her car and we could go
anywhere we wanted, just free to the wind at
26. New York was one option, but it didn't scare
me. L.A. scared the hell out of me: The driving
thing scared me, the city itself scared me, the
fact that I was going to figure out how to be
comedy writer. And then if it failed, which I
actually expected it would, I would know
forever.
C.L.: Of course we do. “Following their
dreams” is in the first book. It’s often a huge
mistake. But also white people like, when their
dream doesn’t come true, to blame it on
someone else: “It wasn’t my fault It was the
fault of society or additives or vaccines.”
But look, if you’re white and you have the
free time and the money to go for it, why not
take a shot? Worse case, move back in with
your parents, which I know for white people is
the worst thing ever, but that’s an option. I
was kind of floating when I took my shot. It
wasn’t like I left behind a wife and kids to go
pursue my dream as a porn star.
Whites like expensive versions of cheap
things, food-wise. So $ 2 5 macaroni-and-
cheese and things like that, which wouldn't
be too hard to interpret as a giant middle
finger to poverty. It's like, "Here, we're going
to take all the food that yon make, because
you had really no other option, and we're
going to make it $ 4 0 . Hey. Fuck you, poor
people."
R.R.: Which one could do in L.A.
C.L.: Exactly.
R.R.: So, here’s kind o f a serious question: Do
you think you’re writing about race or writing -
about class? Or are you writing about the
intersection o f them?
C.L.: I think I’m writing about both and I
think that the two are linked, that to talk about
either in a vacuum doesn’t make any sense at
all. And so I’m talking about white people, and
it’s not all white people across the board. I’m
not talking about Republicans, I’m not talking x
about poor white people. I’m talking about
upper-middle-class wealthy liberals. And
specifically, I’m talking about the class that
they’re in: the upper-middle-class left. And
what’s interesting about them as a class, is that
part of it is this desperation to bfylieve that
we’re the most progressive class of all time, the
most progressive people in the history of white
people. And there’s a desperation to sort of get
away from being recognized as white and being,
I’m a child of the earth now, you know, I don’t
see race, or all that stuff.
But the fact of the m atter is that the
progressive class, as progressive as it is, is still
so overwhelmingly white, that a list like this can
come out, and people get it right away. Yeah,
these are all white things. Because white things
are: privilege; having the time, money and lack
of urgency to get something like an English
degree; the time, money and lack of urgency to
do an unpaid internship. All of these things,
they count as white, because white privilege
still very, very much exists. And so this class, in
spite of how progressive they are, and in spite
of their progressivism, they’re whiteness and
their class are still mixed. And the fact of the
m atter is that non-white people are not moving
into this class quickly enough. I’m always
amazed at how progressive we are, but our
inability to make real sacrifices for real change.
What do white people do when they move to a
gentrifying neighborhood but the public school
isn’t quite how they want it, because of the test
scores o r whatever other reason? They put
their kid in private school or they move to a
different city with a better public school system.
Which isn’t really a way to progress the class or
allow anyone else to join. And so I think the two
things, race and class, are so mixed, that when
We tip our mugs to Coffee Bean International
for donating coffee to Street Roots and
keeping our vendors warm in the morning!
■
C.L.: Yes. Although the white person entry in
R.R.: White people love to take the shot at the
A T I O NAL®
Thank you!
R.R.: In this book, you list people from various
cities and you have little images of them. And
there aren’t a lot o f - Well, I can’t say that. There
are people o f color in these cities, they just seem to'
be lost in the idea o f that city.
dream.
coffee bean
I N * T E R N
you say, Upper-middle-class liberal, it still means
whites.
.
San Francisco is actually an Asian woman. And
the white person for D.C. is Obama. Because
that’s the other thing when talking about class:
If you’re not white (but) fortunate to have
entered into this class, your tastes and your
attitudes will get you branded as white. And this
is something that I experienced in high school.
We had a guy named Long, who’s third-
generation Chinese-Canadian. Liked camping,
jam bands, everything, all that sort of stuff. And
people would accuse him of trying to be white,
that he was ashamed of being Chinese. Not
true. Farthest thing from the truth. Very proud
of being Chinese, loved his family, loved his
heritage. He was just rich and he’d acquired
these tastes along the way. But that, again, is
another message about where we are with
class: No m atter how progressive we think we
are, it’s still white to be a part of this class.
R.R.: Last question. What is your most favorite
white possession or activity?
C.L.: The white activity I like the most is
waiting in line for food.
R.R.: Which you experienced here in Seattle.
C.L.: Whites also like expensive versions of
cheap things, food-wise. So $25 macaroni-and-
cheese and things like that, which wouldn’t be
too hard to interpret as a giant middle finger to
poverty. It’s like, “Here, we’re going to take all
the food that you make, because you had really
no other option, and we’re going to make it
$40. Hey. Fuck you, poor people.” But waiting
in line is something that I’m very guilty of
doing. I did it today; the last time I was here, I
was in line for Salumi for literally an hour-and-a-
half to get that sandwich. And here’s the crazy
thing: It was worth i t That gives you an idea of
how much free time white people have.
R.R.: Well, when I come across a $40 plate of
mac and cheese, I ’m gonna give you a call.
C.L.: No one should be paying — well, that’s
not true. I’ve had a $20 plate of mac-and-
cheese, and it was awesome. Awesome. I’m
addicted. I can’t help it.
Originally published by Real Change, Seattle,
Wash.
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