4
THE TORCH OF REASON, SILVERTON, OREGON, MAY 11, 1899.
Q. — If you were sincere in asking good, and if Mr. Shaw and our
what you did of the legislature, friends can overlook our many
then you wanted it to do for you weaknesses and assist us what they
what, as a good Liberal, you are can without injury to themselves,
not willing that it should do for we may be able, before we go to
the Christians. Do you consider rest, to make the world a little bet­
. that to be right, on ethical grounds? ter—a little more liberal a little
A.—If the legislature of any freer from ignorance and super-
J. E. H osm er,
.............E d ito r
bis seeming caterings to some
who are properly outside of the state wishes to appropriate money stition.
P. W . G eer......................... M an ag er
Secular camp, hut we would not for the establishment o f s c h o o ls ,,
E ntered a t th e postoffice at Silverton, begin to say the mean things about either public or private, I have no
O regon, as second-class m ail m atter.
Mr. Shaw that he did of us, for he objection. I think it right a3 long
T H E V A L U E OF C R E ED S.
as
these
said
schools
do
not
force
is, personally, a stranger to us as
SUBSCRIPTION RATES.
There has been much written
we are to him. We hope that our ary religion or creed upon the
friend will practice what he says students, that is, if it is a Free- against creeds, but perhaps there is
One year, in a d v an c e ..........................$1
Six m onths, in ad v an ce....................
[»0 he believes Liberalism to stand for thought (non-sectarian) school in
one thing that has been overlooked
T h ree m onths, in a d v an c e ................
25
the
broadest
sense
of
the
term.
—truth,
honor,
purity,
justice,
be­
In clubs of five or m ore, one year,
We honestly think we did no by many. No matter how false a
in a d v an c e ..........................................
nevolence and freedom.
Money should lie sent by registered
All of Mr. Shaw’s insinuations, wrong and that the state would creed is, if it is thoroughly believed
le tte r or m oney order.
misrepresentations and false no- have profited much by helping us. it serves as a definite thing for
tions can be successfully answered, Q.—If you intended to refus*» the which its advocates can work, aud
Notice!
and although we will be injured, appropriation in case it was grant- thus it binds them together in a
A h a n d pointing to this notice denotes and unjustly so, by his article and | ed, were you not deceiving the leg­ strong brotherhood. It is like a
th a t your subscription has e x p ire d .
islature?
well-organized army. It matters
You are earn estly requested to re ­ the one he quotes from Mrs. Wil­
A.—We would not have refused not how wrong their principles, a
new so th a t you m ay receive th e p a ­ liam Haight, of McMinnville, Ore­
per w ith o u t in te rru p tio n . W e have de­ gon, yet it will do us no permanent the five thousand dollars, nor did well-drilled army all enthused with
cided th a t it is best for all concerned
the same idea of conquering their
th a t we do n o t send p ap ers longer th an injury, for we are doing nothing we deceive any one.
th e tim e paid for unless so ordered. wrong in establishing a Liberal
Q.—Now, should you justify all enemy and establishing their prin­
T his will prevent any loss and we will
University and asking the friends this on the ground that the end ciples, false though they be, will
know just where we stan d .
We request you to send us th e nam es of Freethought to help us do it.
you had in view was a good one, conquer a mob, it matters not how
of Secularists who m ight becom e su b ­
Our University is small at pres­ were you not practicing the meth­ just its cause.
scribers and we will m ail sam ple copies.
It might be asked, then, how do
ent, but so was Mr. Shaw at one ods of the Jesuits, who do evil that
we evolve to higher things if the
time. It has increased over 300 good may come of it?
A.—We do not believe in doing eternal truth does not always con­
per cent since it started three years
ago, however, and will double next evil, and no g o o d ever comes from quer? Evolution is a slow process;
it comes after many defeats. Wrong
year if we can get our building fin­ evil.
Q.—If it is wrong for the people, principles may enthuse and bind
Our fellow Liberal, Mr. J. D. ished. Mr. Shaw doesn’t seem to
Shaw, of the Independent Pulpit, think much of our personal ability, through their legislatures, to pay together for a time, but truth, like
again attacks us. We are sorry etc. Well, we don’t know very out money for the support of Chris­ murder, “will out,” and reorganiza­
that Mr. Shaw misunderstands us, much, and we might as well own tian institutions, is it right for tion, containing more truth and
but we do not blame him nor won­ up. We wish we knew more, and them to do so for Liberal institu­ less error, takes place. Thus, little
by little, human society has evolved
der at it much, for the quotations we will study the Freethought tions?
A.—It is right for the legisla­ to its present state.
he gives from others who are books of science we now have in
The two greatest hindrances to
pleased to fight against our work the Liberal University library and t u r e s to support Liberal institu­
show the basis of his false reason­ those that we will get during the tions if strictlv Secular and non- progress is lack of union and that
ing and poor judgment. He thinks remaining years of our life. We sectarian, but they should support portion of most supernatural creeds
there is no need of a Liberal Uni­ will also read the Independent Pul­ no Christian institutions as they that holds to the idea of never
now do in every state of the union. changing. The Chinese method of
versity, and there would have been pit occasionally.
none if our enemies had their way. PLAIN ANSWERS TO MR. SHAW’S “ PLAIN Pshaw! Can’t you see the point? clinging to the old doctrines of the
Q.—In asking for that appropri­ Bible, and to the Bible itself, is the
We think there should be a Lib­
QUESTIONS.”
eral University, and we, with the
Question.—I)o you expect sen­ ation, were you representing the worst part of the Christian creeds,
help of our friends, are now build­ sible people to believe you when organized Liberals of Oregon, but at last, even in the ranks of or­
ing what we believe to be the grand you hint now that in petitioning known as the Oregon State Secular thodoxy, the ambassadors of more
civilized thoughts are allowed to
est institution under the sun. Why the Oregon legislature for five Union?
A.—The Oregon State Secular enter, and soon the old conserva-
should we be considered ‘‘inconsist­ thousand dollars you had no idea
ent” in trying to educate young of obtaining it, and that you took Union had nothing to do in asking tive method will give way to
people free from the religious influ­ that course simply to “set thous­ for the appropriation. It sane- standards more in accord with
ences which are in nearly every ands of people to thinking about tioned our work last year, how- modem thought. And now that
other school, both public and pri­ how w’rong it is for the people to ever, and adopted the Porch of Freethinkers are learning the value
pay thousands and millions of dol- Reason as its official organ.
of having some definite aim, some­
vate, in the United States?
Q.—Does what you call the Lib­ thing which appeals to their reason
We were obliged to take the lars to the support of schools that
eral University belong to the Ore- and enthuses them with the energy
work into our hands or let it die. are really and truly sectarian?”
Answer.—Yes. Sensible people gon State Secular I nion or to a born of the natural desire io have
We put a long article in the Torch
of Reason telling just how and why who know most about it, know company of individuals having no all believe the truth, we will cer
it was done. Wc have published that we did not really expect to get official relation to that body?
t< inly accomplish much. We must
every week thereafter at the head an appropriation from the legisla-
A. -The Liberal 1 uiversity is make Secularism mean something
of this page the publishers of the tore of Oregon. We did set thous- owned and operated by the Liberal definite; we must have something
Torch of Reason, and we did not auds of people to thinking about Univsisity Company, whose mem- on which we can, and will, strongly
suppose that it was any more of a “how wrong it is for people to pay hers are all members of the Oregon unite; we must not only believe in
crime for us to publish a paper and taxes to support sectarian schools.” State Secular I nion, two of them good, but we must define and live
Q.—If you answer the foregoing officers, by and with its approval. up to that which we conceive to he
conduct a echool than for Mr.
Shaw to publish the Independent question affirmatively, please tell I here are a few purely iconoclastic good. There is no danger in re­
Pulpit. In a former editorial we us, outright, whether or not you Liberals, some of them members, jecting every evil, nor in accepting
did not speak of Mr. Shaw or name would have accepted the five thous- who neither do anything themselves too much of the truth. If a thing
his paper in making reference to it, and dollars asked for, had it been nor let any one else if they can is bad, let us away with it,no matter
help it* and the Independent Pul- what it costs; if a thing is
because we do not wish to be per­ offered you.
sonal excepting in self-defense and
A.—Yes, we would have gladly Pil »eems to be hut an echo of the good,
let us incorporate it
when the case urgently demands it; accepted five thousand or five bun- barks and snarls of these dogs in jnto our rules of action, using our
but as Mr. Shaw seems very much dred thousand dollars, had it been the manger.
reason and the highest scientific
displeased that we did not advertise offered.
i We are honestly trying to do » authority as our guide.
! his paper, let uh try to please him
by saving that it seems to contain
many good articles, and we advise
T he O nly P ap er of Its Kind.
every Liberal to help support it.
P ublished W eekly by th e Liberal U n i- ¡ N o doubt Mr. Shaw makes mis-
versity C om pany, in the In te re sts of
aH he «lid a few weeks ago in
C onstructive, Moral Secularism .
____
changing Mr. Wettstein’s copy and
Torch of Reason