Continued from Page 21
TS: Just not here, now. But the old way has got to
pass. We’ve.got somehow to change the world.
Catholicism has been around a long time, and peo
ple are wanting to bring it back—you know, the old
medieval stuff. It’s like anything else, 1 guess. There’s
this return to fundamentals, 1 think, that happens to a
society when it’s filled with so much fear. They don’t
know how else to handle it but to throw a bunch of
rules at it.
But there’s all kinds of Catholic Churches. The
Catholic Church in South America works. Really a lot
of people are doing some good for people, working in
villages and with poor people. But the Catholic
Church that I knew in Pocatello, Idaho—that
medieval kind of weird German thing.... [Grimaces]
GSW: Do you believe that? Are you optimistic?
TS: No, no. I believe we’ve got to make a new
world, but I’m not optimistic. Not anymore.
GSW: Should queers care about the future of
Catholicism?
TS: It’s*so personal. There are people who need
that verification from their past. And 1 say, “OK, for
you.” But for me, 1 really want to say: “Just fuck it.
These people are not your friends. Don’t go up to the
Big Guy and say, ‘Please accept us,’ because it’s in his
nature to say, ‘No, you’re not in the book.’ ”
So why not just go to your own heart, make up your
own rules and get rid of this stuff. That’s what 1 think. I still
respect people who want to do that, but I just think, “Why
waste your time?”
GSW: Do you think that “what male is” is changing?
TS: I think so. At least, it’s growing. We still have that
old prototype there—I mean, look at our president and all
those cowboys. So it’s still around, but it seems like the
feminist movement and the queer movement have had
such an effect on it that I think a lot of men who wouldn’t
have had this awareness before, now do. And rhe feeling
that they’re culpable, they can’t just make decisions, that
they’re a part of the larger community. Maybe it’s just
recognizing the female part of themselves.
GSW: You refer again and again in the book to the
moment in the film version of The Wizard of Oz when
black and white becomes color. So, are you a good witch
or a bad witch?
TS: Well, you know, I spent a lot of time on that
because this b<x>k is about bullies. And I’ve since come to
realize just how much 1 have become programmed to be
bullied. 1 kind of let shit happen and 1 just step up and
think: “Well, I can get through this. I can withstand this.
I can let these people bully me and I’ll get through it.”
Since then 1 have come to realize that 1 have a bully,
too. So, 1 think this book is the bad witch getting born.
Finally! That masochistic part of me: “Stop stepping on
me! Fuck you!”
It’s pretty interesting to realize just how programmed
you are to be a chump, and 1 really learned a lot about that
doing this book—by looking at the father, by looking at the
bully, by looking at the standards of what being male is,
especially in the '50s and ’60s.
GSW: Are the warriors of love in the world always by
nature solitary?
TS: Oh, I’m afraid so. 1 think so.
*
GSW: Is loneliness an immutable queer attribute?
TS: No. There’s as many ways to be queer as there are
people. You know, there’s queer Republicans! There’s just
all kinds of ways. If we try to say, “Queer is this,” we’ve lost
something there.
.There is a certain “otherness” that comes from being
queer in this society and in most societies. And I think that
otherness does have a definite psychological component that
each individual has to deal with. Whether they want to be
locked in the Catholic Church so they’re not different or
they strike out by wearing purple robes to prove they’re
different. Whatever it is, there is something different about
us, and 1 think that’s inherent, pretty much.
GSW: There are some cultures that celebrate the
otherness rather than ostracize it. Just not here, now.
GSW: And yet, there’s a real optimism at the end
of Now Is the Hour. Is this a personal trend in your
life, or is it just the way the novel needed to be?
TS: Well, it was a decision. [The character] George
is based on a real person. And what happened to the
real person is really a sad story: suicide. In a way, it was
a choice to maybe regain this person’s character, some
how, in my book. I was always afraid of a kind of minis
eries end. And my books always end so dark. I thought
1 purposely want to decide a new ending for this guy in
my story.
Plus, how happy is it really? What are they doing?
Driving to the Summer of Love in San Francisco. He’s
35 years old and one of the most beautiful men you’ve
ever seen in your life. He’s queer and he’s out. Here’s
[the protagonist Rigby John] a 16-year-old, 17-year-old.
How long are they going to last? 1 guess as long as
Thunderbird wants to keep them together. The odds aren’t
good,though.
GSW: [Laughs] This is why I called it an optimistic
ending as opposed to a happy ending.
TS: Maybe it’s I’m getting older, too, I don’t know.
Maybe I don’t have such an imagination for violence as I
used to. Certainly after Shy Hunters. Shy Hunters was so
dark and I got such a reaction to the darkness that I
thought maybe 1 want to let myself be more accessible.
GSW: Is making fiction with firm connections to true
events all about the perspective of the writer, or is there
an obligation to “the truth,” whatever that is?
TS: What is this big thing about “based on a true
story”? I want to see “based on a big fat lie.” There’s proba
bly more truth in this book [Nou’ Is the Hour] than there is
fiction. But me telling it gives it its emotional truth.
1 think, as far as fiction is concerned, lie your ass off.
“Fiction is the lie that tells the truth."
GSW’: Tell me about emotional truth.
TS: This [writing] is an investigation of myself. So let’s
say my brother Russell died-when 1 was 5. My sister tells a
totally different story about that day. She says it wasn’t
raining; it was a sunny day. There’s a story out there about
what happened to your family. And we can all look at it
like it’s a story.
E squire M otors , inc .
Siwr
UR®.
COMPLETE FOREIGN CAR SERVICE & REPAIR
EUROPEAN & ASIAN
Quality Services Guaranteed
• Serving Downtown Portland Since 1968
503.226.6269
£
$
$
t->
is
^5
www.esquiremotors.com
1853 SW Jefferson • Portland
LINNT0N FEED & SEED
10920 NW St. Helens Rd • Portland, OR 972 31 • Phone: (503)286-1291
DAY OLD CHICKS
GARDENING SUPPLIES
HARDWARE
POULTRY SUPPLIES
ORGANIC FERTILIZERS
FENCING
ORGANIC FEED
BEDDING PLANTS
PLUMBING