Presidents
continued from page 1
Hall beginning April 4 by students
in favor of joining the WRC.
0^ What marked the beginning
♦ of the discussion of sweat
shop labor issues on this campus?
A^Frohnmayer: I’d say a year
♦ and a half ago we saw this as
an issue that was arising on Amer
ican campuses. The Chronicle of
Higher Education ... was indicat
ing that this was an issue that was
likely to be alive. Last fall we
formed an ad-hoc licensing com
mittee to take a look at a code of
conduct and potential monitor
ing. I’d say we were aware of it for
quite some period of time.
Chen: I think, initially, it was
brought into the open by students
over a year ago. The administra
tion said they were working on
the issue as well. But nothing was
happening, so students jumped
on that and pushed for some type
of monitoring group.
O^When the issue was first
♦ raised, did you ever imag
ine that it would become as big as
it has?
Frohnmayer: No.
Chen: I had hoped it would be
big, for the reasons that we
[should be] responsible with our
logo, with our apparel and sweat
shop labor. But I never would
have thought that Phil Knight
would withdraw his donations. I
never would have thought it
would come up because it was
never an issue just about Nike. It
was an issue about all of our li
censees.
In the first three days of the
protest 14 students were arrested
and charged with trespassing. The
protesters were demonstrating not
just in favor of the WRC, but also
to change the way the University
makes decisions. They wanted to
give more decision-making pow
er to more people.
O^How did the protests and
♦ the arrests of students affect
the decision to join the WRC?
A^Frohnmayer: It didn’t affect
♦ it at ail. I have a very long
history of not caving in to pres
sure that I think is inappropriate,
and I saw this as a way of trying to
circumvent the University Sen
ate’s right to hear the issue.
Chen: I think it brought more
attention to the issue of the WRC
and not joining the [Fair Labor
Association] and the other issues
along with the protest that
weren’t looked at very much by
the media covering it, which were
shared governance and campus
democracy, which was a huge as
pect of the protest
Has the controversy follow
♦ ing the WRC decision deci
sion-making process that you
[Frohnmayer] were adamant in
adhering to and you [Chen] were
trying to change?
A^ Frohnmayer: I don’t know
♦ that vindication is the right
word. We followed a process that
we thought was adequate to the
task. It doesn’t do a lot of good to
go back and revisit it because we
are already engaged in developing
another process for examination
of the continued status of the
WRC. I think that that second
process will be very inclusive, in
cluding people off campus and
broader stake holders of the Uni
versity.
Chen: Definitely [the process is]
something that needs work be
cause not all decisions are made
in this fashion. [The WRC] went
through a lot of channels [when]
other decisions don’t even come
close to getting the same type of
process and procedures. If all de
cisions were made in this fashion,
then yes, I could see how it would
definitely be a positive change.
04 How much has the WRC is
♦ sue taken time away from
your regular day-to-day duties as
president?
A^Frohnmayer: It has been a
♦ significant diversion in the
last several weeks anyway. There’s
lots that happens in the spring that
has to happen anyway — it just
makes the days a lot longer.
Chen: None, because I think
this is a duty.
Q^How informed do you think
♦ the University community
was/is about the WRC issue, and
what do you feel is the adminis
tration’s responsibility in inform
ing the community?
A^Frohnmayer: I think the
♦ community as a whole is
much more informed. On the oth
er hand, judging by letters to the
editor, there’s not onl^a wide va
riety of opinions, but there is a
disappointing amount of finger
pointing as opposed to addressing
underlying issues.
Chen: Not as informed as they
should be, but I think a lot of peo
ple have a general sense of what’s
going on.... I’ve gotten responses
that are extremely ignorant and
some that are extremely intelli
gent, [siding with] both sides of
the issue. [The ASUO] can only
do as much as we can for the stu
dents [to get information out];
those are our constituents [but]
we have limited resources to do
that.
S
4 Did you foresee Knight’s de
♦ cision to cancel further con
utions to the University?
^Frohnmayer: No.
Chen: No, not at all. Because,
again, there are people who are
making it into a Nike versus U of
O issue; it wasn’t the issue what
soever ... It wasn’t an attack on
any specific company.
Q^Did you consider the finan
cial impact of joining the
WRC at all?
A^Frohnmayer: It appeared to
♦ be a miniscule impact for a
one-year period. That’s basically
the tiny percentage of our licens
ing fee. We assumed that Nike
personnel knew about this issue
because it arose after the Brown
University situation. And we
made the assumption, mistaken
in retrospect, that there was no
objection.
Chen: I think [people addressed
the monetary issue] a little bit as
far as membership fees.
Q# What kind of response were
♦ you receiving on the WRC
issue before Knight’s decision to
withdraw his future support and
how has it changed since then?
A^Frohnmayer: I think his an
nounced decision vastly es
calated the number of communi
cations that came to this office
and the University generally. It fo
cused razor-sharp attention on the
campus with people who previ
ously may have cared about the
issue, but had not been involved.
Chen: I have not gotten any neg
ative e-mail from students. I’ve
gotten phone calls of inquiry from
students ... I’ve gotten a dozen or
so negative e-mails from alumni
... [and] a few positive e-mails and
phone calls from alumni. But the
negatives outweigh the positives.
4 Do you think Knight overre
acted — not just with his
withdrawal of his financial sup
port, but also with the comments
he made about the bonds of trust
being shredded?
A^Frohnmayer: I don’t want to
♦ comment. I don’t want to
further stir the pot of personal and
professional relationships.
Chen: I definitely think he over
reacted. I think that there’s a lot I
don’t understand as far as the per
sonal relationship that he and
President Frohnmayer have. ...
And by [Knight] saying that this is
a personal issue was really good,
but by not renewing the contract
with Michigan it takes credibility
from the personal issue and
makes it more of a professional is
sue because [The University of
Michigan has] no personal ties
with Phil Knight.
O^In the coming years, what
♦ long-term impact will the
WRC controversy have on alum
ni and donor relations?
Frohnmayer: I think we do
have work to do. This is an issue
that hasn’t stood still. ... When
emotions have cooled enough for
people to engage in dialogue, then
it will be crucial.
Chen: I hope it doesn’t affect
other alumni relationships at all.
O^What steps are planned to
♦ improve those relations?
A^ Frohnmayer: We certainly
♦ have written to hundreds of
donors, responded to communi
cations. I think I’ve spoken about
it at least once in public.... We’ve
had some people say they’d step
up their contributions and we
have others who are just waiting
to see how things develop.
Chen: The steps I think that can
be taken are ones that reassure the
alumni this wasn’t an attack, and
they are just as important as
they’ve always been. And there
are proper channels to go through
as an alumni to even recommend
policy on our University.
The WRC-Nike controversy
raised questions about how a pub
lic university can reconcile its
need for private donations in the
face of diminishing public sup
port with its educational goals,
when those two forces come into
conflict.
Q^How does a public universi
ty balance its educational
goals and its dependence on pri
vate donations?
A^Frohnmayer: I think we’ve
♦ balanced them very careful
ly. Part of our introspective review
process ought to be very conscious
of these issues, without saying
anyone has bought the University.
The irony is that Phil Knight never
attached strings to anything. I’m
sure that it’s his belief that his ef
fort has been demonized.
A condition of the University’s
membership in the WRC was a
one-year review of the fledgling
monitoring agency by the Univer
sity Senate. University officials
have raised concerns about the
WRC’s representation and trans
parency to the public.
Chen: We fight for more funding
through our legislature. That’s
where we need the money and
that’s where we can get it. And it’s
sad because we vote in measures
such as 5 and 47 that basically de
stroy our state education ... Hav
ing a donor withdraw his money
pales in comparison to measures
that are coming up that will have
even greater effects on our Univer
sity system.
Q4If today was April 12, 2001,
♦ one year after the University
joined the WRC, should the Uni
versity chose to join the WRC for
another year?
A^Frohnmayer: I don’t want to
♦ speculate on that. That
would be trying to trump a deci
sion process that has to involve
dozens if not hundreds of people.
Chen: Yes, because the FLA
currently has many deficiencies
and ... the WRC is a much
stronger organization as far as
what we want to see come out of
our monitoring. And so if nothing
changes between these two organ
izations, definitely go with the
WRC because it is a stronger or
ganization.
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